Spiritual Healing and Sobriety

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to the Healer's Corner podcast with your hosts, Melissa Wiles and Maria Cerna. Well as our friends are coming in, welcome everybody to another episode of the Healers Corner. We have Hank back with us. Tonight's topic going over spiritual healing and addiction. And Hank is so very kind to share his journey on both of those. Hank, I don't know how much you want me to start in. I feel like since it's your story, maybe you should tell us your story. Like, how did you get there? [00:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll give kind of like the Cliff Notes and then we can dive deeper, depending on questions or how you want to lead the conversation. But I have been intuitive my whole life. I came in like totally on possibly because of a near death experience at childbirth. And that was fine for a while, like up until like middle school and high school. And then all of a sudden, like, things got really intense because as an empath and intuitive, like emotions, you got hormones going. They have all kinds of different things happening. And I started to have like a lot of anger built up and different things like that. And then as soon as I could legally drink, I was like, let's medicate this maybe even a little bit before I could legally drink. But I literally became a daily drinker from like day one. As soon as I could legally drink it, I was drinking. And then it's a progressive disease, if you will. And just slowly over time, I drink more, drink more, drink more. And then added to the fact that I was in a long distance relationship. My wife, now Anya, she was in Germany. So like on top of that, like, there was like situational depression. And I was also trying to make like the voices in my head, like, go away because I knew stuff and I didn't want to know stuff. But the funny thing is with alcohol, you drink and it numbs you out. But like, you, you still have all the awarenesses. It'd still be like going into the body and you may still be influenced by different spirits that cause spirits that we talk about in the shamanic tradition. And fast forward, I finally got to the. It was literally about, I think a month or so before Anya was going to move here that I ended up having an emotional breakdown at the bank. And I ended up with a consultation and then put into iop, which is intensive outpatient program for dual diagnosis, basically depression plus alcohol abuse. And even then though, I thought, I just have an abuse issue. Like, I just am mismanaging my drinking a little bit. I'm sure I'll be able to drink eventually. And when I went to Germany, I had to literally split my, my sobriety, I had to split my rehab in half. And so I go to Germany and I'm like, there's no meetings in Germany. And like a guy who I met at a meeting who, who knew I was going to be in Germany, there were no meetings. He just gave me these little CDs and he's like, well these really help. Maybe you can listen to them while you're in Germany. You don't have meetings. And because there was only one meeting a month in, in her town and it was all German. So like even if I wanted to go to a meeting or something while I was in Germany, picking her up to bring her back to the States, like I would wouldn't have been beneficial anyway. So I'm just listening to these CDs and I'm still thinking I am not an alcoholic or whatnot. And Paul Fisher, who did this big book workshop based on how AA first started. It was called Back to Basics. Like back when a first started, it was like four one hour information sessions before you'd even go to a meeting. And I'm listening to step one and he's asking all these questions and then the one that nailed me. And in that moment I had like my true, like oh my gosh, this is like really my, a problem that I have. He said, so now based on your experience, are you an alcoholic? And this was a buildup of all these questions leading up to it. And that's when I'm like, oh my gosh. And that's when I knew like I could never pick up a drink again. Now the first, first month, first year actually of that was just like white knuckling. I was sober, but I was what they call a dry drunk and I wasn't doing any inner work. And I'm just basically like if someone was drinking around me, I was freaking out. I cut out everything in my life that could lead to like a like gaming. Like I was playing poker, I was playing War Warcraft and drinking and playing like all that stuff. I cut out because of the possibility of relapse. But on my one year sobriety date, which was March of 2007 I believe, I went to a 12 step weekend and I actually started doing my inner work. And my inner work basically means fine tuning the instrument. Like you have a soul that is just trying to manifest through this, this experience on earth, right? And you do all kinds of things to block yourself off from the communication with your higher self, with the divine. And all that and inner work is the process of identifying what blocks you put up and then working those out so that you have that clear connection again. Because essentially drinking or any addiction behavior, whether it's drugs, alcohol, gaming, sex abuse, whatever the, whatever it is, it's all designed for you to distract yourself from your purpose, your mission. That still small voice that's nudging you to do the next right thing when we'd rather be doing something else. So that's what brought me to getting sober. And then I took a class with Neil, Donna Walsh, a whole year class called the Life Skills Program. And I wanted to eventually start hosting Conversations with God discussion groups. And the very I was, I was only in my second or third month of the class, and it's like one call every week. When I went to see him in Baltimore and I was getting my book signed, in fact, I was just reading about alcohol in his book, like what he had to say about it. I was getting this autograph. There you go. You can see it a little bit, maybe. Anyway, I was getting the autograph of my book and I was telling him that as soon as I finally get all this training and I think they know what I'm doing, I'm going to start this, you know, showing up and like holding these classes and helping people change their lives and bring this information. And as he's setting, without missing a be like, if not you, who? If not now, when? And I went home. And the next month, what week or two, April that year, I started my first conversations. We got a discussion group. And that's when I started showing up knowing that I'm someone that is to be of service. And then the business came and then the healing came and all the other things. But it all started with just realizing that I was completely out of control because I cut myself off from the divine. And it was like they say in the book, Big Book, that once you become sober and you do this work, it's like you're walking hand in hand with the spirit of the universe. And that's. That was the shift really is that I'm not doing it alone anymore. Because we are. We're all one, but we're also all separate. But when you believe you're all separate and not all one, that's when you're cut off from everything. Once you're acknowledging that you are everything. Now it's really a creationship with every other thing that comes your way. And that brings me to today with us talking on this live stream and hopefully helping people a Little bit with whatever level of addiction is showing up with their lives, whether it's social media, movies, tv, you know, like it's not just drugs and alcohol. So don't feel that just because your thing might not be drinking that there isn't relevance to doing the inner work and getting in touch with your soul self. [00:07:46] Speaker A: It. In doing your. Your work and meeting others, have you come across somebody, for instance, like you said, social media, who maybe feel. [00:07:59] Speaker B: Like. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Maybe they're not in the right place because maybe they feel like they might have a social media addiction, but it's not deemed as serious as drugs or alcohol that they feel like maybe they don't belong there in a type of meeting or in a support group. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, people with. Whatever it is, it's. Until it gets bad enough, they have the saying, you have to get sick and tired of being sick and tired. In a way, I feel that I'm really blessed that I had alcohol as an addiction. And I like fast forwarded me to the place where I was willing to say God help me or the divine help me. The lower key it is, you know, like the more kind of internal oomph. Like you really have to take that leap of faith or, or surrender to your inner truth is really what it is. It's like whatever. What truth are you avoiding? Because if you are feeling that you're not supposed to be there and you know that there's something more but you're ignoring it, it's just like you just have to balance the scales to the other side where you, you want to be more awake than you don't. They call it the rule of 51. All you have to do is want it more than you don't. And so someone has a social media addiction. If they don't want to quit it more than they don't, there's not going to be any poor emotion. And it's just like making those little baby steps to start offsetting that scale so that you can get some forward momentum. [00:09:16] Speaker A: When you mentioned they have to, you know, want it in your journey in any of your, you know, colleagues or friends, because you hear about this a lot where family, friends, they try to do like the forced intervention and you hear how the person they're trying to help is in and out of rehab all the time because the family or friends are constantly trying to help, but. And they're always leaving. Is that kind of like what you're meaning? Like if they don't want it and bad enough and that's why they're they're coming out. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah. There's part of it, too. When it comes to people doing interventions and trying to help. There's this concept called squeezing the sponge where, like, no one could have told me before I was ready to come to my own awareness about drinking. No one could have told me anything else. But if, like, people are saying, you need to do this, you need to do that, there's an inherent resistance to what the person is saying. So, like, it's. If you have someone that is in a state like that, it's more. In my opinion, it's more productive to ask questions. Just like how. When I was listening to that cd, I thought one thing. I thought, I'm an alcohol abuse issue. I'll be able to drink again someday. And then through a series of questions, did you experience, you know, mental obsession? Did you experience that? Did you have any consequences from drinking? He asked all these questions, and I was like, answering them and then quote, truth, are you an alcoholic? Truth, do you have a social media problem? Truth. Do you have. Fill in the blank? And that little voice inside, you're going to have a. Knowing whether you listen to it or not is a different thing. I knew I had a problem with alcohol way before. Like, I even went to therapy for a whole year, more than a year, knowing that I had an alcohol abuse issue and lying to my therapist that I was sober even. But, yeah, like, if I wasn't ready to say that I really had the problem problem until, like, I. I was ready. But there's so much resistance for people, People telling you what you should do, shouldn't do. Asking a question and just holding space is where the magic is. Because for every action, there's an equal opposite reaction. You need to get sober, you need to stop drinking, you need to do this, that. But if it's like, well, truth is your life going the way you'd like it to go? And asking a question like that and then just space, holding it gives the person a chance to fall into a different space instead of like, fighting against something that part of them doesn't want to hear. [00:11:35] Speaker A: So you almost need to make it sound like it's their idea, in my opinion. [00:11:40] Speaker B: And granted, everybody's different, but when it's your own idea, you have more buy in from the beginning. [00:11:48] Speaker A: So our friends that are with us for this conversation, feel free to ask questions. Hank is willing to answer probably a lot of things, so feel free. I won't throw you under the bus. But, like, he'll answer everything and go, but, but you Mentioned being intuitive and having that near death and hearing things like what were. If you can remember, because this was younger years, like what kind of things were you hearing that you were like, I don't want to know. I don't want to hear that, you know. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Well, during the super young years, I have a big blackout due to some animation of my childhood. Say it was more like probably fourth grade. And it was more like at that point in time I would just have awarenesses of things. Like I might have an awareness of a being and. But I wasn't physically seeing it and it was more like nudges. And I didn't have anything super bad until like later in like my teenage years. Like what I would call bad. The things that were actually scaring me. It was more helpful. Like I would know. I would just know how to ask for something or manipulate a situation to get what I wanted. And it was very ease. It was just like a knowing of things though I did like have some weird things floating around. Like. Like if the ghost was moving something through the air. Like I had that as a kid and. But I wasn't really scared yet until more middle school and high school is when it really started hitting the fan. And I remember like we were at a friend's house and there was like, I had the impression of a ghost and we were like talking to it and they turned the Christmas tree on and you could. It was like a Native American who never saw a Christmas tree. Or there was a time we were playing with a pendulum, which I do not recommend that you do without tools and knowing what to do with it. But we were talking to something and the pendulum's just swinging around and then all of a sudden it just stopped, like all motion and like everybody freaked out and went scattering and like then seeing a physical apparition. So those were the. The things that really started to maybe not like it, but it was also like a lot of internal anger. Like I started not being able to process emotions. I didn't know how to emotionally regulate. So here I am being empathic and aware, seeing things that don't make sense, kind of getting scared at it. But then also without. Without being able to regulate emotions and being an empath and being able to see spirits and things like that. They feed on that kind of energy. So if you're not being able to regulate that makes it. You're more prone to possibly having experiences supernatural nature that are not preferred. [00:14:29] Speaker A: I know one of the stories you told me. Did you or a friend get thrown through a Wall. [00:14:35] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I forgot about that. We were at a party and we. I didn't. We didn't know it at the time, but my friend, he had taken, like, a belt and he had put it around like a teddy bear. And he was like, hanging this teddy bear by the belt. And it was my. One of the other girls there. It was her bear, and she was upset that he was doing it. And like, he literally went up in the air and then went through, like, the drywall portion. He was like, right in between the beams. But then he's like. He falls down. He's like, what the f was that? And it turned out that her uncle had committed suicide in the attic by hanging. And so when he was causing that and maybe animating her trauma, like, of her uncle and knowing that he had passed, it gave that spirit the energy required to and. And move him through the wall. [00:15:24] Speaker A: Was that her house or. [00:15:26] Speaker B: It was in that house, in the. Well, the. The suicide happened in the attic, but we were in the basement of the house. [00:15:34] Speaker A: That's a perfect representation of fafo. Yeah. Young people will be doing dumb things sometimes. Now, you touched on it briefly, but you were saying, like, you would when you were drinking to try and quiet them. It didn't necessarily quiet them, right? [00:16:00] Speaker B: No, I think that I was more subjectable to influence, but I didn't know where the influence was coming from. So, like, when you drink, you're, like, numbing your senses, but, like, you could still have, like. Like in the shaman program we talked about, cause spirits, you might. If you're hanging around in a bar and you have people like spirits that haven't crossed over or cause spirits that, like the energy of drinking or whatnot, they're hanging around and they might nudge you, like, hey, have another. Hey, have another. Like, they don't. They don't overcome you. They don't have wool over you necessarily, but they're nudging you to continue to take the actions that they like because. Because they want to hang around you and feel that way again. So, like, it, like all that influence is there, but without. With the alcohol and drinking is especially as much as I was drinking, like, I didn't have the conscious awareness, oh, this is a spirit. It's just like through the subconscious. It's kind of like advertising. You have all that advertising everywhere, and the next thing you know, you're buying something you never needed. But you've seen that ad 30 times. It gets into the subconscious. So just like that, you're. You're. You're you're getting marketed to by spirits who want you to take certain actions that they like you to take so that they can have a more tangible experience through you. [00:17:06] Speaker A: I feel like I'm hogging all the hang time. Maria, did you have questions? When you. [00:17:14] Speaker C: When you say spirits, does that necessarily mean it's a spirit that took a human form, or does it mean that it could be any kind of spirit, not of this world? [00:17:27] Speaker B: I would say it could be any disembodied consciousness, whether it had a body before or not. It just doesn't necessarily have a body now. For example, a mojo bag, which you can make in hoodoo and other traditions if you give, you create a job spirit. So you have a mojo bag, and you're feeding the mojo bag to create something, and then all of a sudden you get what you want and you never decommission the bag. But there's still this spirit that had that job, and now you're not feeding it anymore, and it gets a little annoyed. And now it's like, well, I'm going to go do my job somewhere else. Maybe I'll get someone that's going to feed me. Like, that would be an example of a spirit that. That never necessarily had an incarnation that you birthed somebody birthed, but then never gave it a proper ending. [00:18:11] Speaker C: And some of these spirits, though, they. Because we're. We're creative beings and we create things. And it could be a disembodied body spirit or disembodied pieces and parts of energy that you create that is a part of you. Because, you know, it's funny how you say it, because in chronic healing psychotherapy, that's what we learned that there are these beings. That alcoholic that goes to a rehab multiple times is not because it didn't work, is because these energy beings that they have collected or have acquired needs to get fed. And that when you said that, it just triggered the class for me. They need to get fed. So they're gonna nudge you. Hey, we can stop there. We can get maybe just small little drink and. Or just maybe a smidge a sip. It's interesting that you said that, you know, because in. In class we talked about it, we learn how to do the treatment, but actually not, you know, putting it together with somebody who experienced it. That's really interesting that how you word it. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you can also have like, ancestor influences and things like that on both sides of the family. There was drinking, and then like, my grandpa was into some crazy stuff and like, so there could be ancestry stuff that could be playing into the role too. So, like now I'm not only getting sober for me, but I'm stopping like a reoccurring pattern in two family lines. So there's that element. And then even with the spirits aside, the real thing is like, well, what is the, the internal thing that needs to shift where the spirits can't take hold of that anymore. And what I really believe all of it is about is somebody's uncomfortability with being themselves is what it all comes down to. Like, people are distracting. They're being belief beasts, believing what everybody else is telling them. And instead of getting settled and finding out what's true for them and what is true for them might be very uncomfortable because they have been taught whatever that is true for them is like not the society norm or not something that they should believe or should step into. They're falling short of all the judgments from their parents because it's not what the parents had envisioned for them. So like, like the, the actual healing occurs once you A, get sober and B, do the inner work enough to be able to regulate. And then also look at these original imprints. And I, I use the word imprints because everybody has imprints. Not everybody has trauma, thankfully, but everybody has imprints where something that somebody said to you now shapes your reality. And you look at everything through this particular lens. So finding out what those initial imprints are or initial traumas or wounds and starting to learn how to navigate them so that when you are triggered or you do get the nudge, you now have a strength from a different area, a strength from that oneness within that you can start to, to push through and not subject to the desires of something outside of yourself. [00:21:24] Speaker A: You know? [00:21:24] Speaker C: Well, how does one, how does one figure that out? Because if somebody is like you, it took you, what, how long before you decided enough is enough. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Oh, I drink from, let's see, probably two. Like, I got sober in 2005, I think 2006. The years blend together. I almost have 20 years. And I was spiritual before that. Like I, I had read Conversations with God in 1997. So like, I, I had given myself some good tools. And those things echoed in the back of my mind, like, as I was drinking, like I, I had some of these spiritual concepts and I still knew a lot of things, but I just was, you know, medicating. And it wasn't until I, I realized and really surrendered to, wow, I cannot do this on my own. And I had to. You know, I remember the Night I was drinking, and I just said. At the end of that night, I said, God help me. And it was not a prayer. It was a decree. It was like, God, help me. Not like, oh, please help me. It was like a declaration of will to the universe. And the next day is when I had the breakdown. Like, that is not the way that I think help should come. Right? But that is exactly what I needed because I got, like. They said, take the day off. I go. I called my therapist. I called the employee assistance line. The next thing you know, I'm doing my assessment. Then, like, three, two or three days, I was already in rehab. It was like, boom, boom, boom. And like, I was just, like, going with the flow because I had reached, you know, there was something else driving at that point. As soon as I invited Spirit to come. Come in, it was like, now it. I wasn't just trying to. To swim upstream anymore. I know I was going with the current, but I at least had somebody helping me to drive the boat instead of going the opposite direction of everywhere my soul is trying to take me. But for every person, it's different. Every journey is different. And, you know, AA doesn't work for everybody. There's a gradient of addictions. Not everybody gets to the point where they have to have a program like that. They might be able to go to a therapist and that's enough. They might be able to find a score like Goddess Elite, take the right classes, get the books, and, like, begin that journey without having to just reach a bottom where, like, I almost probably, like my doctor had told me, based on the feeling of my liver even, that I. You know, I was like, just at the cusp of having liver issues. Like, I had. I. I would have died had I not stopped when I did or had serious health issues. My blood counts were all off because I went to my doctor to get pink. Slipped out of work, basically, so I could go to rehab and not have to work at the same time because I worked at a bank. I was talking to people with financial stress, hearing all the sob stories from Hurricane Katrina. Like, you. There was. It was just, like, the worst thing possible for an empath. I have this direct line of contact with 100 people a day that are all, like, I'm just drinking in everything, you know? So I was literally fast forwarding to Grand Canyon low. That doesn't have to be everybody's story, though. So it's. It's going back to. All you have to do is want it more than you don't. So starting with the question for anyone, like, what would you like? Does your life. How does your life feel? Is it how you like your life to look? If the answer is no, then start getting curious. Well, what would I. What does serve the soul? What does serve me? And just starting to get curious. That's enough to start the shift. But if it's like, you know, I'm perfect the way I am, like, there's some readings. Like, people come for readings, you can't tell them anything. They just want to hear that. I call them the fluff and buff readings, where it's like, I just want to hear about how great my life is. Right. Like, so what do you do for someone like that? There has to be some level of humility that though I am a drop of the ocean, I. I'm the entire ocean within a drop. But I have to, you know, do my part so the ocean can be whole. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Yeah. When you're sitting there, like, you can't tell them anything different. And I'm like, we all have those stories, right? And my favorite's always, like, the person coming in, wanting this married person. And I'm like, stop it. It's never gonna happen. Like, the reading hasn't changed in six months. [00:25:36] Speaker B: Stop it. [00:25:41] Speaker A: It's. I'm kind of curious. Especially since COVID spirituality has gotten to be way more accepted, investigated. You know, are you seeing, like, a demographic in age where it's more of people doing spiritual recovery after addiction versus other generations, maybe, and not necessarily Covet, because, right, they're going to be younger, but because it had even before COVID like, you weren't immediately thrown into the sane asylum if you're like, I read tarot, right? You know, have you seen, over the years, a shift of people kind of being willing to get uncomfortable and maybe with their addiction? Like, you know what? I know I come from a very Christian base. My family has always frowned upon this. But I'm stepping into a place of power where I'm not going to let it stop me. And maybe they're putting down, you know, what their addiction is because they're no longer trying to force themselves in a certain way. When it comes to spirituality. [00:26:49] Speaker B: I. I think in general, there is awakening across the board, and there still might be more resistance with the older generation than younger. I look at Covet as like, a big cosmic interrupt for the planet. Like, everybody was doing the routines, and all of a sudden everything had to stop. And I. I came up with an acronym for Covid, Creating Opportunities via Intuiting Divinity. And everybody just Sitting at home, like, doing different things. Like, they started to get in touch with that. And like, there's like a whole bunch of younger people, the whole gamut of people start waking up. And more than that, people start going to nature more. Like when we would go to the parks during COVID there was like so many people. Like now, like, you don't see that, but there was like a. A resurgence into nature, which I think is like one of the. The greatest signs. But one of the things that I think has hindered that a little bit is there is. I think Zane might talk about it a little bit too, like, toxic positivity or like it's only the light and it's all fluff and buff and like, not the acknowledgment of the duality. So, like, people who only focus on the positive and no acknowledgment for the light, I feel like it creates an unbalanced thing. Because the whole point of all this, at least my opinion, is that it's like to have the experience. In order to have the experience, you have to have the contrast. And. And so some people are ignoring half the equation. So there's this awakening, but this hunger only for the light side and a lack of education on the contrast. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Well, I think there's the. The misunderstanding that the dark side, if you will, is all only negative and nothing good comes out of it. And, you know, whereas I'm like, if you get in there and get to the root of the cause, like your anger, you can have divine justifiable anger. It's how you use it. And most people would deem anger as a negative feeling emotion. You know, it can be if you are laying hands on people. You know, if you were blowing up buildings, if you were, you know, running people over. But if you are in a peaceful protest, you're writing letters, you're making positive change without hurting, that is still anger, but you're using it in a helpful type of way. And I don't think people understand, like, that would technically be on the dark side, you know? [00:29:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Understanding and why, I think that's a huge thing. And like, just a willingness to love the part of yourself that can get angry. Like, we're taught that it's wrong, and so, like, we repressed that. I was like that for super long, and it wasn't until maybe 5, 6. I can't believe years blend together. Like, even being sober for so many years, I was not emotionally awakened in a way. And it wasn't until I was working with a Guide. And I had this awareness of some childhood traumas that I didn't remember. And I'm just like, oh, let's go after that. And then like, as I got in touch with that, I had the whole gamut of emotions all over the place. Did not know how to regulate. I was literally a crazy person. God bless Anya for putting up with me for, for a lot of reasons, but like, but especially like just having like this whole array because I was basically a three year old now learning how to emotionally regulate. And it was a long, was a long haul. I still have, you know, days where I'm. I'm a crazy person emotionally. But we're taught that a lot of these things are wrong versus these are all healthy emotions. It's just a matter of navigating them and elevating how you're expressing them. It's just like in the shaman program we have the different belts and like, instead of reacting with rage, like now you've elevated its compassion and that same energy is now being expressed based on whatever the circumstances is with like a, with a more loving energy and embracing all of it because it's all you. But if any part that you're denying, you'll never be whole. So it kind of. We have a situation where there's a lot of people awakening spiritually, but not to their totality. And that's what I think will come in the future is like a balancing of that as people are getting a little bit more comfortable diving into the dark side or the deep side. Because it's really contrast. I prefer the word contrast. It's a little less scary, you know. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it, it makes people kind of shudder a little bit when you're like, ooh, the dark side. You know, you're like, we have cookies over here. Come. We literally have cookies. I was eating. One of our friends here says, I went through addiction and found peace in Buddhism and have moved on to which craft. Now I have found an inner peace in myself and I'm comfortable with myself. And I love the tarot readings and have been and have even done some on people. I appreciate life so much more and feel like I have gone in, in touch with myself and my roots. I think that's like one thing too that's kind of important. Like, your spiritualism can shift as you're healing and as you're growing. Like there is no one person perfect, correct, you know, way for any one person. And that's wonderful that, that you've had that journey and you're so comfortable now. I'M like, am I as comfortable as I think I could be? Is that why I hate this planet so much? Get me off of it. That's a whole other. Now, Hank, when you're doing. Have you found that you get a lot of clients coming in who, like. Like a ratio of your clients? Do you find that those with addiction kind of feel drawn to you, maybe because they feel, you know, that you have that understanding and, like, what it means to be going through that or, you know, have gone through and still working with themselves? [00:32:35] Speaker B: I. I see a correlation in my clients, like, not just with that, but other things that I've healed from. From. It's like, whatever I've healed from, like, around emotional stuff, relationship stuff, abuse stuff, like seeing violence in the household and things, or. Or the addiction stuff. All the clients, they. They tends to be threads of commonality. And I believe that's just because I have the. The medicine for that, having healed for that. And then I'm also learning new things because I'm seeing. I can't tell you how many times I've had a client and, like, they're sharing about something going on, and whatever they share just gave me a whole different insight from a different point of view about one of my past experiences, and it just, like, blows my mind. So I think that every client and everything, like, we're both there for each other in a sacred learning, if you will. But for sure, there's always correlations. Kind of spooky to the level that. That they happen. [00:33:29] Speaker A: That tends to happen a lot in the store. And I'm like, oh, that's for both. [00:33:33] Speaker B: Of us, isn't it? [00:33:34] Speaker A: It is. Note taken. [00:33:37] Speaker B: You're the only one in the room. [00:33:40] Speaker A: Like, thanks. In the middle of the world, what would be, like, some of the biggest challenges you have once you're like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm in rehab. I'm riding the wave. I'm going where I feel like I need to be and getting there. Like, what were those challenges that you were kind of experiencing as you were going through that journey? [00:34:05] Speaker B: I mean, like, at the very beginning, it was literally just white knuckling it and, like, using the tools that I had for my Iop. I don't even remember everything, but one of them was, like, act opposite. Like, if I. If I wake up and I don't feel like going to work today, and I don't feel like this, and I don't feel like that, they would say, act opposite. As it was, you are a person that would want to go to work. And that kind of goes into the category of maybe a fake it till you're making. You know, like I don't feel this way, but I'm gonna do the things that that kind of person does and get through it all. And then really my big journey started on that one year anniversary when I took the Neil down Walsh class and I found goddessly. That was way back, you know, like I remember getting my first crystal from Goddess Elite. It was like from I'm Pat Jim on the store and I went to like a psychic fair and I won the crystal and then I ended up finding Lilydale. And it's just like, I guess the big thing is it just starting to follow the little day signs. That spirit starts to lead up where you have to get through enough of it. The inner work. So you can start just noticing these things and then things kind of line up and you just move and ease from one thing to another. And if you all of a sudden stop seeing that, that's when they start asking questions. Question, well, what is it that I'm not willing to be aware of? Because maybe now there's a whole nother layer of things to kind of unearth. [00:35:25] Speaker A: When you, when you said like way back when and I'm like, somewhere I have that very first Hank picture standing in the old Goddess Elite holding two to forks, you know, with this. And I'm like, oh, but where is it we can see Hank in that part of his journey? If I can find that photo buried way back in the depths of Canva. [00:35:50] Speaker B: That'S when I still had some hair in different locations. [00:35:52] Speaker A: Yeah, no beard. But did you run into any like of your possible drinking partners who maybe were like, it's not a problem, problem, you're fine. Just come out with us, you know, be okay. Or did you cut yourself off for them? Like, you know what? I can't even be around you at this point. [00:36:18] Speaker B: You know, I. During my drinking, by the end of it, I wasn't drinking socially like that anymore. I was drinking a lot at home or going to the bar by myself. And I had excluded myself from that category. So I already. I had isolated myself from almost everyone of by the end. And I haven't. I think most people were respectful. Like the only couple people I can think of from the bank, I think everybody knew that I probably shouldn't be drinking at that point. Like, I would get to work one time and I remember one of my co workers, he was like, he's looking over, he's like, hey, you go drinking Last night, I'm like, yeah, he's like, look at your feet. And I looked at him wearing, like, two different shoes. And I had noticed I put two different shoes on. And, you know, and I, I, I went to crazy parties and things and people, People kind of probably had the idea that I shouldn't be drinking. So I got a lot of support from my workplace and, like, my friend circle. I had cut off everybody, so I hadn't, I didn't really have anybody, like, checking up on me or, or trying to talk me back into drinking other than the online gaming. I did play, like, War Warhammer and stuff like that, or Warhammer World of Warcraft. And so, like, those online people, I also just turned off the machine and I didn't talk to them anymore. So I ghosted them. So wrongly. No. I did tell the one guy running it that I was going through some rehab stuff and I would be back, but I just never came back. [00:37:42] Speaker A: Oh, no, I don't have the Hank picture anymore. [00:37:46] Speaker B: Oh, you didn't realize you were looking for it right now? [00:37:49] Speaker A: Yeah, My other bajillion tabs open on Google Day. [00:37:56] Speaker B: I'm sure you'll find it. You can have it to embarrass me for the next stream. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Like, look what I found. I. I will say, I don't know what made me kind of realize this at one point, but I want to say it was around the last holiday season that, like, if somebody is like, hey, do you want a drink? And if the other person says no, it's almost immediately followed up, but, like, why not? Like, we're having fun. But if you're like, hey, do you want to do a line of coke? And you're like, no. Nobody pushes, nobody questions. But for some reason, like, our society, it's. It's almost like, not okay to say, no, I don't want to drink. You have to explain yourself for some reason why you don't want a drink. And I'm like, that is very interesting. [00:38:43] Speaker B: That's triple true for Germans. When I went to pick up Anya, I had just gotten sober, and I wasn't even, like, about two months sober, I think. I don't remember the exact time, but I was in the middle of rehab. Paused. Rehab. Go to pick up Anya. And I tell her on the phone, I'm like, hey, talk to your parents for me before I get there and tell them, you know, I can't drink. Don't offer me any alcohol. And she's just like, I cannot have that conversation with my parents. There was so much taboo around the idea of being an alcoholic, even. And then. So I get there and I go into her. Her living room, her parents living room. And the first thing her dad does is he gets like, this milk crate thing filled with beer. They're like these half liter bottles of my favorite beer called Koustrunser. And he puts it on the table and goes, oh, Hank, I made you a present. And I'm like, I can't drink. And he's like, what do you mean? And I, like, I tried to explain it, and then he got like. He has, like, the shelf of scotches, and he brings down, like, this old scotch, which is probably at the time, older than I was, and he brings down all these bottles, and he's like, have you ever seen such a selection? And he, like, offered me a drink of scotch. I'm like, I can't drink. And I tried to explain it again, and then I just started crying. And he goes, okay, okay, okay. And then, like, he stopped pushing it, but it was like he was really pushing to get that. That initial drink in me, you know, like, at least my perspective. Then everywhere I went to that. That brief time in Germany, it was like I was being tempted. We go to a Chinese restaurant. Instead of fortune cookies, they give a thing of plum wine. We go to a Greek restaurant. It happened to be their anniversary. They're coming around with shots of free Uzo over and over again. And I'm like, this white knuckling going, I can't have it. But I wanted it, so. But like, there was all this drinking pressure that. That you really have. Like, that it's the normal, Normal thing that's changed a lot in the last 20 years. Now when you go, it's a whole different experience. But at the time, it was like, really? Everybody was drinking? [00:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Pamela's like, I didn't know Hank with hair. [00:40:45] Speaker B: I have hair. It's just hanging. I'm gonna eventually be able to do the comb over, where I can put it through the. [00:40:55] Speaker A: You know, they have contests for, like, beard art and stuff, right? [00:40:59] Speaker B: Oh, do they? Yeah. [00:41:02] Speaker A: Yeah. It's amazing what these guys do. And I'm like, who has time? Apparently they do. Yeah. I. I forget what event I. It was like a gathering of friends. And I just remember thinking that, you know, hearing this happen and then me thinking, like, they shouldn't have to explain to you why they don't want to drink. Like, why do they have to justify not wanting a drink? You know? And then I'm like, is that a one off and you know, was kind of, you know, asking around. I'm like, okay, this happens kind of often. And I think it's like a, a society or a cultural thing, you know, where alcohol is the better drug, the more accepted drug. And you know, so to say no, it's like, well, why not? Like everybody's doing it. But again, no, I don't want to line a coat. No, I don't want to shoot heroin. Oh, good for you. You know, I no more friend. But it's, it's, it was kind of eye opening. This was a conversation I was having earlier in the store with somebody else today about them kind of having a healing journey and some recovery. And they mentioned how running in and working with some of these people that he kind of had to pull away from because other people in the support group, like their whole life revolved around recovery and not in a way of just, you know, I'm going to get my spiritualism or I'm going to do better in my job and get where I want to go because I'm not dedicating all my time and try to feed this recovery or this addiction. It was like, hi, what's your name? And it would be like, my name is blah, blah, blah, and I'm a 20 year, you know. And like every bit of conversation always revolved around the recovery and it became their identity. And you know, he goes, I feel like that was a whole other addiction in a way was being addicted to being in recovery. Have you like experienced that or, you know, thoughts on that? [00:43:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I've had a couple. Well, full disclosure, I don't go to meetings very often. The, in fact, in the big book of A, it doesn't say anywhere that you have to go to meetings. It says you need to share what you've been freely given. And you can do that by being self employed and working in a healing clinic and all kinds of different things like that. But like, and you have to work the steps. And I actually got banned from a meeting once. Like, I have been asked to do a lead and when I went, when I went to the lead, like this sounds like it should be common sense, but I'm like, meetings don't keep you sober. The steps keep you you sober. Like doing the actual inner work and getting in touch with the divine keep you sober. But the guy who brought me through the program, like, he, he basically said if you only go to meetings and you don't do anything else, you're coasting. And there's only one way you can coast and that's downhill. And so like if you're just going to meetings and you're just in the fellowship and you're just eating the donuts and drinking the coffee and listening, but you're not actually doing any of the work, is that program being a service to you? And I was criticized for this, but like back in when AA first started, they had like a, like an insane success rate and it's not even close to that today. And what's the reason is that the gradient of people that are going has changed substantially. It used to be only the worst of the worst. Like you're gonna die if you don't get silver. Those are the people that were finding aa and now you have this huge pool of people that are there for various reasons, including a court order, that have no interest in actually doing any inner work. They're just there because someone told them to be. So you have like a lot of people there that aren't really, they're helping and they're diluting from the purpose. So like, I think you know, meetings are great when you're going and you're sharing and actually doing the work. But if you're just going because someone told you you have to half measures avail us nothing to quote something from the big book. So you really want to go in totality and do the work and then you go to the meetings to share what you were given. But there's, there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of people that I've heard that are long time people in sobriety that have been starting to look for something different because they're not getting what they needed anymore. And so there's a similar vibe to that. And I think there's probably a wide range because you could easily go to sleep again going to meetings all the time and not actually doing the work, which includes doing a daily inventory and immediately admitting where you were wrong, immediately going to fix and make room, prepare and make amends. It would be really easy just to go to meetings and forget all that stuff and just have fun with the fellowship and free food and all that kind of stuff. [00:45:52] Speaker A: Free coffee, free donuts. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Oh, but you know, when I was, when I got sober, there was a couple guys who were like really hard on money and they found all the anniversary meetings, those are potlucks so you get to have the whole spread. And they were able to go from meeting to meeting and meeting, they were, they were smart, they were eating for free. They didn't have of a lot, lot of money. It's not just donuts and coffee. You know, you got the whole gamut. I don't know, since co, maybe that's changed, but like, there, there were some meetings that had a pretty, you know, even spiral Pam and all that kind of stuff. [00:46:24] Speaker A: I mean, I might go to a meeting. [00:46:26] Speaker B: Shoot. Yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker A: You get to caffeine and, you know, especially Celsius. That's how I get my days done. And Kona coffee now. Thank you, Maria, for bringing me cofa coffee, Kona coffee from Hawaii. You are welcome. But you know, the, the people that, they can't talk about anything else, you know, it's kind of like, I wonder, is it kind of like that whole you pros too much and too loudly? You know, are you, are you really doing the work if that's all you can talk about? You know, you'd be like, hey, look, that car is blue. Yeah, I used to ride around in a blue car when I would go get my next fix. [00:47:13] Speaker B: Like, oh, like a one upper. [00:47:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Like every bit of conversation comes back to how they're in, in recovery and how they're doing it. And part of me and I'm like, good for you. But dude, like, I, I think the. [00:47:27] Speaker B: People that really get it are going to be asking more questions questions and letting other people talk than doing the talking. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Gotcha. Because, you know, I'm kind of like, do you burn out the empathy when you just drive it constantly? If every bit of conversations like that now, now the rest of us were. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Like, well, because now I'm the star and do what I do. No, I don't. There ought to be some level of humility. And like, the ones that really get it probably aren't saying that they get it at all. All. [00:47:58] Speaker A: If any of our friends in chat have any questions about addiction, recovery, sobriety, feel free to ask. We have Hank here to answer questions. And the bus drives over. Hank, since you are the, the main, the main knower of tonight's topic. You know, I, I, I met you, what, in 2011 when I took over Goddess Elite. So you have been sober was, it was like four or five years. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I got sober March of 06 06. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Okay. So, yeah, it would have been, yeah, five years because it was October of 11 and you know, you didn't mention it right away or anything of the store. And I forget how it even came up. And I remember being kind of surprised because I'm like, wouldn't have seen it, you know. And I think that just goes to show how much work you have put In. Even in the very beginning of, you know, working through that and going through that, and I don't know what I would have thought, but it wouldn't have been anything that I'm like, oh, yeah, I can. Could have seen that one. Not surprised. It was kind of like, really the same Hank that. The one back there with the tuning forks making noise. That one behind him, that guy. Oh, okay. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Never would have thought I fooled a lot of people. Even when I was drinking, like, when I was at the bank, I. I was. I was a top performer, but I was a mess inside. Like, I was. I was really putting up a good mask and a good front, but inside I was like, dead. [00:49:36] Speaker A: So correct me if I'm wrong. Alcoholism is one. Is it the only one or one of the few that can literally kill you with withdrawals? [00:49:50] Speaker B: Detoxing can be. Can be extreme. In fact, I think that will give people some of a drip, like, to wean them off and stuff. I. I did not need to go through that. Fortunately, mine was outpatient, but, yeah, sorry, I just lost my train of thought. What was it going to be, though? It will come back or it won't. We'll see. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Pamela asks, if you don't go to meetings often, what helps you during difficult times or are you triggered? [00:50:20] Speaker B: Oh, I have a support system. I have a lot of people around me, a lot of fellow healers and things. Of course, my family, my wife. I have a very devout spiritual practice. And so, like, one of my first things I'll do is I'll, like, go get my Florida water, put some Florida water, blow my hoocha, my happiness into a candle, light a candle, activate my altar. You know, I went through all of this and, like, I did go to meetings for years until I moved to the west side. That's probably when I stopped going to meetings just because of convenience thing, and I just never picked it up. But it's also, like they say, to help, you know, give away what was so freely given. And every single day, I'm helping people, you know, and I think that that's what really keeps you sober. And Neil Donald Walsh speaks to this in his book, which kind of kicked off. Part of my spiritual journey, is that we. We haven't mistaken that we need to do something in order to have something, in order to be something, but it's about being first. And if you cause another to be the thing that you want, then you're acknowledging that you have it to give. So the idea of being a service, whether. And if AA is a Great place to be of service. So, like, you can go to meetings and you can be a service to your community, but you could also do that by working at a volunteer basis somewhere or, or being a healer or all kinds of different things. Running a discussion group like I did with conversations with God to start, and I was helping other people have a little bit more of themselves. And then I, by default, was getting a little bit more mess myself. And then it just kind of. I've been working at it a while. [00:51:54] Speaker A: It seems very similar to. I'm not going to get the saying right, but it's like you learn more when you are the teacher. So it's like as you're helping others, your aha moments go off for yourself as well. [00:52:11] Speaker B: And now that I'm thinking about it too, there was one time when there was a unique living situation at the house at the time, and I had the realization that my sobriety was threatened and I went to a meeting. And so, like, I. I know that that tool is there and I'm not. I. I will go to one. If I don't have a tool and I cannot help myself, I absolutely will depend on that community. And, you know, I have to think about something. I'm going to percolate on something around that too. But at the end of the day, like, what tools are. What tools are there, and I will utilize every tool that I have. And most of the time, once I realize that I need a tool, that's already a time for me to ask a question. Well, where have I actually been triggered to the point where now I need to go and do something like a big physical representation of intention through a candle magic or for something else. Something hit really close to a wound. And so all those opportunities aren't just about navigating to not relapse. It's also about turning the spotlight in on oneself and going, cool, There's a wound that I. That has gone a little bit deeper. Let me really look at that. How do I feel around that? What do I have a memory coming up around that and like doing the inner work. Otherwise you're just kind of, you know, putting band aids on things as things come up. But it's like, about going and getting the bleeder. [00:53:37] Speaker A: And band aids are very, very temporary. Kind of like the addiction part. Right? So, yeah. Maria, do you have any. Any more questions for Hank? My hamster wheels have slowed down in the question form. [00:53:54] Speaker C: I. I know someone with addiction, and it doesn't have to be alcohol. That is always an ongoing process because you always learn things from yourself as you keep evolving. But there had to be a moment where you're like, oh, this is what it feels like. You know, I don't have to constantly avoid that bar. Avoid this. This is what it feels like. Did that ever happen to you? Like the, A little bit of the aha. This is what it feels like. [00:54:26] Speaker B: Well, I mean at the very beginning I would avoid bars. I wouldn't like people drinking around me. And I can't say that I had an aha moment where I suddenly realized I could be around it. There was even a time where like when I was in Germany, Anya's dad bought like all this non alcoholic beer because he figured if I couldn't have alcohol, I could have non alcohol. Nope, I can't do that now. I could have one. If I wanted to have a non alcoholic beer I would be able to do that. But it was a gradual thing and it's kind of like I'm just taking one step at a time and the next thing you know you're on top of a mountain or at least a peak and you look back and you got there. But I, I couldn't tell you all the little individual steps, but there's definitely a shift where things just as Zane would say, smooth going, unease, things just get easier and then if you do get knocked off a little bit, the recovery time is faster. But it really comes down to just being honest with yourself about what you need and the willingness to ask for it, the willingness to receive it, that's a whole other thing. Like if I did need help, being able to go to any, like, hey, I feel a B and C way and like just being able to talk to someone and receive whatever they have like that, that's the recipe really is the willingness to be honest, ask, receive, repeat. [00:55:42] Speaker A: You, you mentioned falling off the bandwagon if somebody were like, how detrimental, you know, is that? I know. I, I've heard of people beating themselves up when they fall off the bandwagon. Like to them they feel like all the progress they made is gone. It means nothing. They're starting from zero. And it, it seems very hard for some people to pull themselves out of that, that pity of like, I fell off now what? Like to get themselves out of that spiral, you know, that they're, that they're in like what would be useful tools for them to kind of overcome. Like I fell off the bandwagon and everything I did was moot now. [00:56:25] Speaker B: Oh well, falling off the bandwagon for an alcoholic because unlike some Other drugs where you have a craving, you take the drug and the craving goes away. The phenomenon of craving with alcohol happens after you take the drink. And so there's been people that had 10 years sober, have one drink, end up going on a binge, getting into a car accident, and that's it. So, like, it can be dangerous if it's like the real alcoholic, if you will. And there's so much of a gradient, it's hard to answer that question. But it's like you have to give yourself the space of grace. And if you, if you relapse like that, then the question is, was cool, what could I do different? What could I be different? And like getting, getting curious with a question instead of saying, I could have, shoulda, woulda. Because now you're fragmenting in the past, which you know isn't gonna help us. And then you might be like, oh, I'm never gonna do it now. You're fragmenting the future, like in this moment right now, like, truth. Like, what was that path that led me to that drink and what could I do differently next time? And that comes down to willingness again and the willingness to be humble and, you know, not have an excuse. Because some people who drink like that also, it might be like, well, so and so, like I could have relapsed when I went to Germany, he put that gift, oh, I didn't want to say no to a gift. Have the drink. And the next thing you know, I've relapsed and had to start all over again. So it's like having to be honest with like, well, where, where was my, my weak spot, if you will, that I gave away my power to some outside of myself, just me and God is really. But if I, if I empower somebody like my father in law more than me and God or anything like that, that's, that's the danger zones where we left. So like asking the question like, where did he give away my power? And giving yourself the space of grace. Nobody on this planet, I don't think, has ascended. We're not perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. What? My, one of my first bosses, he had this quote when I would kind of be judging myself. He's like, show me a man who's never made a mistake and I'll show you a man who doesn't know anything. And so like, recognizing that you now have more information and more experience than you did before, and now how can you take that forward and be a little different with it? [00:58:33] Speaker A: Well, we don't have any more questions coming In. So I guess we'll. We'll wrap up here. What would be, like, your most sage advice for anybody maybe in addiction and just looking for a way to get started on a recovery path. [00:58:50] Speaker B: You know, I recommend it. I always post it in January. Maybe I'll post it tonight too. There is the CDs that made the difference for me that. That helped me really come to the awareness that I'm an alcoholic. Just listen to the Paul Fisher Big Book workshop. It's on YouTube now. Back in the day was only on CDs. Now it's, like, easily findable. And I just started listening to that because I. I was desperate. But, like, because of the series of how he asked those questions, it got me to the place where I was able to be honest with myself with the question truth. Am I an alcoholic? And the reason you say truth is you. You have a greater degree of a bullcrap detector. If you say truth to yourself and then say something if you're lying, you kind of know it works with people too. You say truth and you ask them question. Like, you either get to. They'll tell you the truth, or you'll have a. A better indication that they're lying to you. So it's kind of like, you know, shining an extra spotlight on the truth of the matter and just try stuff. What works for me isn't going to work for everybody, and vice versa. We all have our unique, you know, launch codes, if you will. And the thing is to stay the course, like Dr. K, when we stream, she would always say, you got to stay the course course. And you just keep on keeping on. And like, eventually something shifts if you want it more than you don't, and you keep on choosing and showing up for yourself, eventually there's a shift. [01:00:12] Speaker A: So, Hank, if somebody wanted to reach out to you because they feel comfortable after listening or watching this, and they're like, you know, maybe he can help me on my journey. How would they get in touch with you? [01:00:24] Speaker B: Yeah, my website is my name Hank S E T E. So that's where you can find me or on Facebook or go to Goddess Elite's website. I'm a store reader. You can find me there. I think it links to my website too. But you can find me on the Goddess Elite website. I can post it in the link right now. You can click this link and then find me. There we go. [01:00:52] Speaker A: But even if you use the Goddess Elite website, because through us, Hank is zoom only. But if you shoot him a message and say, hey, you know, I found you via God asleep. But these dates, times don't work. Like he's very flexible and he'll, he'll work with you. And if you're local, Hank has his own office with all the noise making gadgets. So not only, you know, healing sessions, be it consultations, but sound healing. I think you also do like tree of life readings for people. Do, do those help even with addiction type of clients? The, the tree of life readings, definitely. [01:01:39] Speaker B: Like the tree of life reading is a message from your soul to you and like what you need to know now and then what is showing up in your life that's stopping you? So basically it's going to be like kind of whatever's showing up to stop that from coming through is going to be the core of your work at this point in time to just have more of you and to have less boulders blocking, like you know what you want to create in your life. They can help everybody. And if you don't want that kind of reading, I also do golden dawn readings, which is more around a specific, specific question. It's like a 15 card reading where it's like, hey, should I do this job? And then it's a whole reading about, about that. [01:02:19] Speaker A: So if anybody is interested in a healing session or healing working with Hank. Hank, you are a certified Reiki master. You have been through the, the shaman program. So it's, it's just dawning on me. All three of us have been through the Shama program. What other. I know you have some knowledge of nlp. What, what tools do you have in your, your healing tool belt for people? [01:02:49] Speaker B: A life experience, which I, I say that not jokingly, like really, that is probably my greatest medicine is from my experience, but from my experience I filtered through Reiki, shamanism, sound healing, color therapy, tarot. I can't even think of all of them. I, I did take a Lomi Lomi class with Harry, which is like, that was one of my favorite modalities ever. That's Hawaiian handling. And that, that's just amazing stuff. I would have, I have a binder in my office with all my pieces of paper that say I know how to do stuff. I should look at it and remember all the different things. I could like put out a list, but life experience through the filters mostly of a life coach, shamanic, nature, mystic. [01:03:30] Speaker A: And so our friends who are with us this evening, listening, watching, if they're not local, you can work with them from a distance. [01:03:40] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. If it's like you want a full sound session from a distance, I Use my mesa which is like a little medicine bundle. I go through a little ceremony where we. You blow your essence and your issues into the Mesa and I put that on the table with the camera on and it serves as a proxy and you just say in a receptive state. And I do what I would normally do as if you were in the room. And I find it to be super effective. And in some ways like Zane would say that when you are virtual healings and readings and things, I mean the healings actually have a greater effect because you're not just working the person, you're also working their space. There's like a whole different element. So like I, I find that there's some wants us to virtual work that's actually more potent in some ways or maybe just different. But like no, no matter where you're at, local or virtual, it's, it's very effective. [01:04:35] Speaker A: Pam Pamela says I see Hank somewhat regularly and I get something from him every time we meet. I love our sessions and thank you. [01:04:42] Speaker B: You're welcome. Thank you. [01:04:46] Speaker A: Well guys, if there's any last minute questions for Hank about his journey or more addiction and recovery, spiritual healing with doing the recovery, now is the time to ask. Otherwise we will let Hank go. And I was going to say because your little ones are probably ready to go to bed but it just dawned on me your little ones are probably taller than I am and they're not little anymore. [01:05:10] Speaker B: Oh, you should Oliver, he's gonna be like a seven foot tall person, I swear. [01:05:14] Speaker A: But thanks for joining guys. Thank you Hank for joining us and sharing your journey anytime. [01:05:19] Speaker B: Thank you. [01:05:20] Speaker A: And again, if anybody would like to reach out to Hank, you can go to his website which is www.hanksea.comSetta S E T A L A.com and let them know you found them through here. Even though I'm sure you wouldn't mind being surprised either way. Hank, if they're like I just found you randomly. [01:05:45] Speaker B: What happened? Someone found me through Google the other day. I'm like cool, what did you Google? Just like shaman healer near me and there I am. [01:05:54] Speaker A: Do you have like a Google pinpoint map like shaman? [01:05:58] Speaker B: I don't know what I, how they did it but they found me through Google which is a. Doesn't happen that often. Usually it's word amount. Because I, the thing I tell every client at the end is like please tell all your friends and about me. And a lot of them do. And that's how I get most of my, my businesses through that kind of referral process. [01:06:15] Speaker A: Well, that word of mouth, especially when it's. It's like, I got great benefit, please go see this person. Then you know that that is a very great thing. And then that's like an honor, right, that they trusted you so much that they're willing to send a loved one to you. Oh, and Chris apparently, too, saw things and did not go back in her room at times, but. Well, everybody have a great night, and thank you again for joining Tank and all of our friends, and we look forward to seeing all of you guys again. Stay warm and have a good night till next time. [01:07:03] Speaker B: Time. [01:07:29] Speaker A: Sa.