The Healing Power of Recovery

Melissa (00:06) Well, hello everybody. We are back for another episode of the Healer's Corner. And Jim, I can't remember, have we had you on before? JIm (00:15) Long time ago. Well, I don't kn I was on a podcast, but I don't know if it was this one. Maria (00:17) Yeah. Melissa (00:21) I don't know I'm like, was it this one? Was it the Witchy one for the store? Was it something else? JIm (00:25) My it was something with I was with Hank and ⁓ Brittany and we talked about ⁓ we talked about similar we talked about our three of us had all different ⁓ experiences with addiction and spiritualism and recovery and we talked about our different experiences. Maria (00:31) was a different one. Yeah. ⁓ Melissa (00:32) Yeah. Yeah, I yeah, that was a whole different different thing. I don't even think technically that was a podcast. I think that was just a live, like, let's entertain the people during downtime, maybe. But Jim, we have you on, as you already alluded to, to talk about addiction and recovery. And Maria and I have known you for what, double digit years now, I think? JIm (00:54) Ha ha ha. For sure, yeah. yeah. Yeah. Probably fourteen, maybe something 'cause I'm thinking I started my mediumship journey about fifteen years ago, and your store was the one that kind of gave me the break with the reading. So but that was about fourteen years ago. Yeah. Maria (01:10) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Melissa (01:12) I mean back at the old store location, the tiny one. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you you first came to us in development circle of all things. Maria (01:29) Wow. JIm (01:33) Yes, development and then ⁓ and then I I don't I I took that training with Sharon Klingler and I was like, I'm ready to do readings and at the time nobody was reading on Sundays. It was at the old store and ⁓ I was like I I'm I I just wanna practice so I wasn't even charging people. So we would just do a love offering, whatever they wanted to give me. And ⁓ so it went from there and Yeah, here's where we are today. Melissa (02:02) Yeah. And in the meantime, you have taken over development circle and you are one of our main readers that people get mad that sometimes they have to wait months to get into. You know, to see. JIm (02:07) Yes, that's true. Maria (02:07) Yeah. Yeah. JIm (02:14) Hopefully well, hopefully once I retire from my other job that we can we can fix that problem. Melissa (02:21) We can bring Jim in. Now, and I will say, Jim, in the years of knowing you and talking and and you being very open with your recovery and your addiction, the time that you spent in addiction, you this is gonna sound bad to say. You have the most fun stories during your addiction. Maria (02:22) Hahaha! Melissa (02:44) You know, most people are like, you know, I was stealing from friends and family and, you know, getting in trouble. You, however, are like, nah, I was, you know, getting the newscaster to like give me a hand sign after a a baseball game and I'm like, you need to write a book. ⁓ Maria (03:02) ⁓ JIm (03:04) It's true. I'm sure she probably has not forgotten me. I was I was I was I was pretty pretty memorable had the poor had the poor woman trapped in a loge. Maria (03:09) Yeah, I'm pretty sure Melissa (03:19) So ⁓ do you mind telling maybe that story? I can't remember how long, but it had the good ending and I'm like, that is fantastic. JIm (03:26) It's it well, it does have a happy ending. But yeah, so ⁓ when I drank and again there was a reason I quit drinking and that was because it it there were a lot there was a lot of fun, but it it started to not be fun. no, we lost Maria again. ⁓ but it did start, yeah. It started to not be fun. And ⁓ so again, and probably s like I said, was poor Wilma Smith and she probably she was the best, like she is such a good sport. Melissa (03:42) Yeah, she'll be back. JIm (03:56) ⁓ but yeah, I was in a loge ⁓ with my friend John. John ⁓ got me into a loge. I'm a social worker, so we don't get loges. but my friend was was in advertising and got into a loge, and so I was dr ⁓ excessive. And there's Wilma Smith, and she is going through her script for the night. And so I plant myself right next to her. Maria (04:07) Yes JIm (04:24) start asking her all these questions and she ⁓ you know getting answers too she was very gracious because I'm sure I wasn't it wasn't pretty and she ⁓ I said to her I said could you do one thing for me and she said sure I said when you sign off tonight could you go and never ever thinking she would do it. And so John and I were bombed and we were just laughing about it all you know the rest of the night. And I'm like, well, let's go back to your house. Well, let's watch the news. Let's see if she does it. And she did it. She she we're watching, she got to the very end and she she puts this big smile on her face and she goes and I was like, ⁓ so we were yeah. But yeah, he Melissa (05:14) So for she was what a newscast for was it it's Fox Eight? Channel five, okay. JIm (05:18) channel five. Mm-hmm. And she was lovely. I mean, just a lovely woman. ⁓ I I and I've I've met her sober too. So ⁓ she probably well, like I said, she probably remembers the drunk the drunk version of me, but pro sober I was a little more sedate and ⁓ and I have met her in that state too. And every time she just was this lovely human being. I yeah. Really, really nice lady. Maria (05:21) ⁓ FF- Melissa (05:44) Did she did she remember you when you went and met her sober? Does she remember that whole interaction? JIm (05:48) Sh she did not and I did not remind her. It's like nah. Maria (05:57) you Melissa (05:57) Ha ha JIm (05:58) Well, I think when I when I did the drunk thing I had hair and then ⁓ later I don't and so I think I could kind of be incognito, see, and I I so I I didn't want to be like, Hey, remember? Melissa (06:13) Remember that really obnoxious guy that made you go at the end of the night? That's me. JIm (06:17) Yes. And w and wouldn't stop sitting next to you on the couch while you were tr trying to do your work. ⁓ But yeah, so yeah, better to be sober, I think. Melissa (06:31) I mean to remember. JIm (06:32) 'Cause it did I mean, like I said, good fun times and you know, and ⁓ I was in AA for a long time and we always say, you know, we we ⁓ we don't want to shut the door on the past, right? We don't regret the past or wish to shut the door on it. And that's because that's a part of who I was. That's got me to where I am. And again, I I I've made amends for some of the more severe behaviors. And ⁓ so That's you know, that's what you do. You you apologize, you do what you gotta do and then you move on. ⁓ you know, you don't worry about the person's reaction as much. You're doing it to clean up your side of the street. ⁓ i I've never had a bad reaction from anyone though. So so that's kind of nice too. Yeah. Nobody's ever been like, ⁓ so so yeah, it's always been pretty a pretty good experience for me anyway. Yeah. Melissa (07:20) That's good. Now, what was it that led you down, as you've already hinted and and you know, said, into drinking? JIm (07:39) Well, it just got to a point where ⁓ what got me what so I always partied. I was a big partier in high school, college. and actually at about age twenty seven or so got into a really good relationship. And I was an Al Anon too, 'cause I'd been in a relationship with an alcoholic, you know. And so later on you find out, like, ⁓ what does a good alcoholic do? You find somebody worse than you. So that you don't you can be in denial, right? About your own alcoholism. And that's really unconsciously really what what happened. And then I got into a relationship at age twenty-seven till about age thirty-two. And that was a really functional relationship. And so I was like, Jim, you cannot drink if you you if you want to stay in this relationship, you can't be a partier. And that was fine because I was I was really, really happy. And ⁓ after that person died, I went a little like, ooh. let's ⁓ you know first it was drinking to kind of I I believe just to kind of get through some of the grief. And then that's where it just kind of ⁓ cycled on into something a lot bigger where, you know, it was and I never drink every day. it's I I was drinking, you know, Friday, Saturday, sometimes Sunday afternoon. I'd feel like crap Monday going to work. Maria (08:57) Thank JIm (09:00) And then sometimes on a Wednesday, you know, c you know, can't miss karaoke. And which I'm sure I'm so glad there's no videos of that. And so you know, again, I always look back, I'm like, thank God I did all this before social media. Cause I would have had no judgment around that at all. I would have thought what I was doing was hilarious well, sometimes it was hilarious, but ⁓ but it's not it's not like Maria (09:11) you JIm (09:30) your employer wouldn't think so, you know. So so yeah, like riding a bike on the dance floor of a bar, you know, that's not did did that too. And it turns out it was the security guard's bike that I chose. So yes, I was asked to leave. just be Melissa (09:32) Right. Maria (09:34) No. You ⁓ Melissa (09:39) You did this? Maria (09:46) you Melissa (09:51) I'm I'm impressed that you had the balance while drunk to ride said bike around dance floor. JIm (09:55) ⁓ I did great. I did beautifully. circled the dance floor. Maria (09:55) Yeah! JIm (10:04) It's pretty good. This yeah, gotta get him in. But but yeah, so what happened though is that that over time I would drink and then it would turn into longer, longer episodes. Like I'd I'd be out till two in the morning and that wasn't enough. And I found a bar that would close their doors at two, but then like have a party until five or six in the morning. And ⁓ of course other substances were used to be able to stay awake. Melissa (10:04) You didn't tell me this story yet. Maria (10:04) you JIm (10:34) And so it all kind of just like steamrolled and tumbleweeded until I got to a point where I just I wasn't happy, you know. You you'd ⁓ wake up the next day and you couldn't remember. I would I was a blackout drinker, so I wouldn't remember w what I did, I or or who I did. And and th those yeah. I mean if we're gonna be ⁓ all telling here, ⁓ Maria (10:56) You JIm (11:03) So that was kind of happening. And then I would just feel I I can't explain. I mean, I would just feel horrible. I I would feel guilt ridden, fear-ridden, ⁓ all the things I didn't want to feel. And the the pain from that became greater than the joy I was getting from the partying. And and I it kind of all crashed one day. I I'd been at that particular bar I was talking about till eight in the morning, ⁓ called off work from the bar with some lame excuse and ⁓ got behind a school bus driving home and all I could think about was that I was gonna kill somebody. That's all I could think about was there's all these children that I'm and I work with kids. That's always been my passion is to help kids. And so it I got home and I was sobbing. I I you know. you know, it was kinda like this how it was kind of like when you're the person that you aspire to be is in conflict with this person you've become. And that was the last day of my drinking. I mean, that was I I called my sister, ⁓ and she was like, Well, do you know where to find an A meeting? And I was like, Mm, yeah, I think you just call this number and, you know, they'll tell you something. And and it was really it was like meant to be like I I went to this one, I think it was like at one o'clock in the afternoon on Clegg Road at a church. And you know, I walk in and you don't want anybody to know you, right? You're just this first meeting. You're and I'm still drunk too. I'm like, you know, it's from the night before. And I go in and I'm just like sitting, I sat with like this table of old ladies and you know, no one will get me here. And Heard this lead and it was like exactly what I was supposed to hear because he was talking about the disease concept. I had so much guilt about ⁓ I was beating myself up so much about, ⁓ where's your willpower and you know, what kind of person are you? And you're a mental health therapist, you know better. There was all this guilt and shame around it. And he said, he talked about the disease concept and he he said in his thing, it was really crude, but I never forgot it. He said, Yeah, next time someone tells me I don't have a disease, I tell them Yeah, tell yourself that when you have diarrhea. And I was like, Wow, okay, I get it. Yeah, you can't be in denial about that. And it is a function. And so ⁓ that got to me. And then I get up, we all get in a circle, you pray at the end, which I had no I did at the time. No, I don't want to pray, right? But I did it because everyone else was doing it. And ⁓ I looked on my left and what was kind of across the room and this girl, she's like, Hey you and I'm like, No, you know, I was no, I don't want to see anybody. And it was this girl from the gym I always talked to and she came over and she's she's you know, we ended up talking. It was my first day. She got me hooked up with some people, ⁓ you know, told meet me at this meeting tomorrow, meet me at this one on Thursday. ⁓ and you know, the rest was history. So I've you know, here I am twenty four years later, sober. So Melissa (14:35) So twenty four years of sobriety. Well congratulations, Jim. JIm (14:38) Yes. Yes. Thank you. Maria (14:41) Yes, congratulations. JIm (14:43) Yeah. Melissa (14:43) What ⁓ what would be the day for your twenty five? JIm (14:47) July first. Yeah. Jul well next year, July first. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And actually the first I mean d so really I did go so yeah, so from July first, my actual first sobriety date was February something. I don't remember. But I was sober two and a half years and I went out one night and I it was one of those things where and everyone says, God, you were lucky. ⁓ 'cause it was. I I went right back to the old Melissa (14:49) Okay. Maria (14:51) Okay. Melissa (14:53) Right, right, right. JIm (15:17) like the goofy behaviors and all that kind of stuff and and drug seeking and all none of none of which I wanted unless I drank. And so I w did. I got up the next day and I was like, nope, I am done. And actually there was a bartender on my my one night relapse. He ruined my drinking. ⁓ he was in recovery and I was doing the as as an alcoholic that can't control their drinking. And so I'm like, I haven't had a drink in two and a half years. Here's some new drinks. I want one of those. I want one of those. I'd like three drinks in front of me. And I said to him, This is great. I haven't had a drink for two and a half years. And he said, wow. Well, that looks really painful then. And I was like, You prick. You just ruined my whole idea here, you know. Maria (16:05) Mmm. JIm (16:11) ⁓ and he turns out he'd been sober eight years and ⁓ and he knew what I was doing, you know, and so the next day then was that was July first. And so from that point forward it's twenty four years. If if we were to go back to my original date, it would be like twenty six and a half with was a slip there, so early on. But yeah, for twenty four s consecutive years, no drinking, no drugs, no cigarettes. Melissa (16:11) Mm-hmm. Did you ever go back and kind of thank that bartender for kind of saying that? JIm (16:43) No, he was in LA, so I couldn't Yeah. It was I was on vacation, which is why I was getting away with I that was my whole plan. I had you know, I went on vacation and my whole plan was to, well, I'm gonna drink, no one will know. And ⁓ I was so guilt riddled that of course I let everyone know. And ⁓ and again, no, I've never gone back and thanked him, but you know, I don't and I don't even know how I would do that, but Melissa (16:46) okay. Maria (16:47) ⁓ JIm (17:13) ⁓ I don't know, maybe Melissa (17:15) I'm impressed that he was working in a bar, given that he was, you know, doing his best for sobriety. you got temptation in front of you, you know, minute after minute. Maria (17:19) Mm-hmm. Yeah. JIm (17:24) Me too. I couldn't. Yeah. You know, one of the sayings they say, you know, if you were if you if you're in a barber shop long enough you get a haircut. And ⁓ so for me that's what if I were in a bar every day, that would I I couldn't do it. I mean, it's it's I don't have any intention of drinking. ⁓ but you know, I have I am married to the idea that I'm powerless over alcohol. So I I really can't be around unless I have a reason to be. Like if I'm at a party and I know I'm, you know, I have to be on good spiritual ground. I if I know what I'm getting into. If I go to a concert, which I do love to go to concerts, ⁓ I know I'm so, you know, and I usually go with somebody too. I don't go alone. ⁓ so ⁓ you know and gratefully my my partner's also sober. So it's easy for us to go do things like that together and and not be affected. Melissa (18:27) So we have a friend, ⁓ Ian asks, Do you notice a difference in the clarity of your connection to spirit now that you're sober compared to when you were drinking? Has sobriety changed the way you receive and interpret communication from spirit? JIm (18:42) So yes, so prior to getting ⁓ sober, I didn't really have much of a connection with ⁓ with spirit. It wasn't really on my agenda. ⁓ I as a young child could see spirits. ⁓ that went away over time because it it was not ⁓ appreciated in in my so much by my mother. And so ⁓ I didn't really revisit that again till ⁓ god, how I was probably about ten years sober. Yeah, that would be the math, right? Fourteen year yeah. So I was about ten years sober. ⁓ and I you know, you do a lot of inner work and in when you get sober. You you have to kind of look at your dark side and your demons and you you root out your character defects and you you basically confess to somebody and to God and to yourself and then you make your amends and all that good stuff. And I had done all that work. ⁓ and and I will say I I also got closer to God as I define him, not as somebody else defines. I shouldn't even say him. I don't know what entity God is, but but I say him 'cause I was raised Catholic and it's just you can't deprogram that, you know. So ⁓ So I I I'll say him, even though I I I'm not so sure about that. But I t I was very clear that I lost perspective when it came to my intuition. And so I went to Lilydale. There was an intuition building class, followed by a mediumship demonstration. It was Peggy Romito, she's a brilliant medium from Florida, and ⁓ she brought through my dad and really, really, really convincingly. And ⁓ I approached her afterwards and she then said, Well come to my class tomorrow. It's mediumship development, it's it's psychic development. So I I did that and then I and then the rest was kind of history because I was I did really well and I didn't know why I was doing really well. ⁓ but I I think that yes, my clarity increased. I I if I would have stayed drinking, there's no way I would be where I am today with my mediumship. ⁓ this work requires focus and practice and being unselfish. And, you know, when you d ⁓ for me, I can't speak for other people who drink, but drinking in excess is very selfish. ⁓ that's that's my opinion. ⁓ th there's not a lot there wasn't a lot for me to give, you know, when I you're drinking or you're recovering from drinking, right? So you're you know, and I could tell stories where you know, really good story where it was hung over and there were people. I could see them. They were at the end of my street and they were moving and they called me. This is when we had answering machines and they called and I you know, you would screen your calls, right? You could hear the message and they were like, Hey, we could use some hands helping us move. And I was like, no. ⁓ that would be totally different today. I mean, I wouldn't have even need the phone call today. I would probably look down the street, walk down and say, Hey, do you need some help? And so this is the thing. I I I don't think I could have ever ⁓ sustained a mediumistic practice ⁓ drinking. That's just for me. So I Ian, I hope that answers your question, but but yeah the clarity is ⁓ completely different. And I and I do think too there's other things I think that like I've noticed too much caffeine. Right. If I'm too jittery, ⁓ too much sugar. That say anything for me in excess does affect my mediumship. Lack of sleep. ⁓ it's it's interesting. It's a it's made me a better person. Cause I wanted the mediumship so badly, I was willing to do whatever I needed to do to get it. And and not in a desperate way, like I wouldn't murder ⁓ anybody, but well, you know, I thought I needed to clarify. Maria (22:54) Thank JIm (22:57) I wouldn't do anything. But I would but but yeah, when it came so yeah, prior to ⁓ a medium ship a big medium ship demo, I'm gonna probably not eat so much sugar and watch how much chocolate I intake because I'm very sensitive to caffeine and it gets me rushing. ⁓ so so yeah, I I think anything for me it's all things except for alcohol. I can't do alcohol in moderation because one one drink is ⁓ means I'm gonna have more than that. So So yeah, but I but I'll st usually say, you know, all things in moderation, you know. You don't want to get carried away. But yes, definitely improved. ⁓ made a big difference. So hopefully that answered your question. Long, long. Like you said in the beginning, you knew I I wouldn't have a problem not talking. Melissa (23:44) I'm like, Jim's got this. We won't have any dead air. ⁓ Now I get the pleasure of running into Jim more often, except for this time of year, because I'm usually not in the building when you're in. And Maria, you don't get to see him that often. So if you have any questions you'd like to ask him, I'm gonna let you do some asking because I can hog Jim and we can joke about silly Facebook reels that we send to one another. JIm (23:46) Ha ha. Maria (23:48) Yeah. Was it hard? The group of people that you were hanging out with when you were drinking before you went through the stages, was it hard to give them up? mean, because these people know you, you knew them, but you had no choice but to walk away. Melissa (24:13) The downtime. JIm (24:28) Yes. Yes. Yeah, that was really hard. ⁓ and I think that was some and I I think I knew that it was gonna be hard and that kept me drinking longer because ⁓ I it really is ⁓ difficult ⁓ to to do that. And I and for me too, I think that's why that was the appeal of Alcoholics Anonymous for me is that you you kind of are inheriting a a new group of people. and So that that was my doorway to get sober. AA was. I I'm not an active member currently. but that was I was for 22 years. So ⁓ so it did it it for me, I feel it worked. and yes, it was hard. And people in the program kept saying to me, if they're really good friends, they'll call you, they'll check in, they'll look for you. Guess what? None of did. Yeah. Cause as soon as you left the bar, that was that was the bond. It was it was the alcohol and the partying and everything. Now I do have some friends like ⁓ like I have very lifelong friends that ⁓ the basis of our relationship wasn't just alcohol. And we are still friends and they still drink and I don't. And ⁓ it's just interesting because they're so respectful too. They'll be No, do you mind? And I'm like, my God. No, I mean you I don't I'm not gonna control what you do and ⁓ you know if I if there's something that I can't handle I'll go somewhere else, you know, it's just that's that's how it is. But but yeah, that was the hard part, Maria. That was really hard. ⁓ I I missed those folks really for quite some time getting sober, probably two to three years, you know, and a lot of reminiscing, you know, about ⁓ they were so fun. 'Cause they were. I mean, it's not that Maria (26:22) Mm-hmm. JIm (26:28) I was making it up, they were fun, but ⁓ also kind of toxic for me as well. So you you had to walk away. Melissa (26:39) Did you ever find out later? Maria (26:39) Were there some family members? JIm (26:42) There ⁓ none none that I had to walk away from, but I d I come from a family of where alcoholism runs. ⁓ so it is in my family. ⁓ and it was interesting because my sister who has she's crossed over, she's passed on. ⁓ my sister she drank quite a bit and she I got sober. She was the one I called and was like, go to you know, do you know how to you know guides me to AA and the whole thing. And then I think I was sober for like three or four weeks. I was over at her house and she was like, you know, it's really too bad that that you can't do this. Isn't there some way? And she found something, I don't remember, drink enders or something like that, where they try to drink responsibly. And ⁓ you know, I researched it and it sounded horribly irresponsible to to be honest. And ⁓ so she was even you know, I had a draw, align there, you know, and kind of say, no, you know, and I really don't want to have these conversations. I I just really have to stay focused on a day at a time right now. And ⁓ so, you know, she but she drank and her husband and ⁓ I have a nephew and ⁓ my father was functional. My grandfather had cirrhosis. So I mean it it's it's all over. It's all over my family. Maria (28:11) Okay. Melissa (28:15) Jim, I'm still waiting for you to write your book with all your stuff. JIm (28:19) Maybe one day. I haven't decided what I want to do with that. I some of it's could be about a spiritual journey 'cause 'Cause it probably would be a pretty good it'd be an interesting read. ⁓ but I also have where I wanna do stories, like like if you've ever read David Sederis and how he just kind of writes these compartmentalized stories about events in his life or people he talks to. I I I don't wanna be him, but it would be that kind of a thing 'cause I I 'cause I I mean I'm at a place I listen and I observe a lot and I I think that gives you a lot to write about. Yeah. Melissa (28:57) I agree. Now, do you find Jim when you're doing readings, if you have a client sit down across from you who hasn't stepped into recovery, like how does that feel or affect the reading that you are going to be doing for them? JIm (29:16) If you mean if they're if they're using ⁓ okay. So I th I can still pick up on st I don't think their state of mind matters. ⁓ what what I think matters though is their ability to take the information. ⁓ so I I do encourage people to not drink bef like I'll Melissa (29:19) Yeah, if they're in addiction. Yeah. Maria (29:22) Mm-hmm. JIm (29:44) I do house parties a lot of times and you know, I'll s I'm not gonna tell what to do, but but I'll say, Hey, I kinda recommend that, you know, we'll do our little group reading from like s you know, seven to eight thirty, seven to nine, and then break out the booze, but not before because ⁓ I think it makes people more emotional. it I think it also affects memory and in in a couple ways. One where if they're drinking too much, it may not things may not resonate that normally would. And another in that it might influence them to actually make a memory that isn't there. And ⁓ you know, yeah, I kind of remember it that way. You know, I I that's that's not a good that's not a good read. So ⁓ I I again I don't think it really matters. I think spirit will come through no matter what your state is, but how what kind of what kind of condition are you in to hear it? That's the that's my concern. Melissa (30:45) I know you've mentioned before, even just in the store with a sober client, you know, they they can't recognize their dead people. So I imagine it would be even worse if they're tipsy, drunk, you know, forget that Aunt Jane did wear a certain thing or w you know, have a certain type of pet or, you know. JIm (30:58) Yep. Yeah. Or or even remember her name was It Jane. Maria (31:10) you Melissa (31:13) Right. JIm (31:15) Because we've had I've had that with sober people, right? ⁓ you have you're getting a name and they're like, no, no, no. And my God, that's my father in law. and it would, you know, okay. But we call it psychic amnesia. You get very, you know, the process itself is it's emotional, right? And some people can get tunnel vision about who they want to come through. So then nothing else, they don't hear anything else. And ⁓ yeah, so probably am I Melissa (31:19) Mm-hmm. JIm (31:44) My guess would be if you're drinking ⁓ heavily, it's probably worse. I c I could see somebody having a glass of wine to maybe loosen them up a little bit if they're really uptight. But other than that, I I wouldn't recommend coming in for a reading under the influence. Melissa (32:01) Yeah, I don't think during normal store hours reading we've we've had anybody coming. You know. JIm (32:06) You haven't? No. I I've I no, I gotta say no. I I I I have to say that the readings I've always done at your store, I don't recall anyone. Cause I s I have a hyper vigilant nose for hyper vigilant's really about seeing, isn't it? But ⁓ I'm hypersensitive with smell to alcohol. And so I mean I pick up on it right away. And there really hasn't been, I can't say, at the store. Now at Wine and Spirits, that would be another story. Maria (32:09) No. Melissa (32:34) ⁓ Yeah. JIm (32:36) although I will say most people there are also very well behaved. ⁓ there I've only had a couple occasions and it's been at the very end of the night, ⁓ because they, you know, drank all night and I'm just like, I just go away. Yes. Maria (32:43) huh. Melissa (32:55) They've forgotten anybody they've ever been related to, anybody they've ever been friends with, every job they've ever had, where they currently work. Maria (33:00) going to JIm (33:01) Or there one of the best was ⁓ it was years ago and she wasn't even part of Wine and Spirits. She was at Christ Winery with a bridal party, and ⁓ sh they had been going at it all day, and someone said, I guess someone must have said, Go get a reading, and I probably had an opening. It was like 10 30 at night and She came over and I right away was like, ⁓ my God, make this stop. And she I started getting information and it was her grandmother. I do remember. I mean, most readings I don't remember, but I remember this so vividly. I was getting it through and it was her grandmother, and but most of the info was coming, I don't remember what it was, but it was coming in for her mother, most of it. And she was like, She was, This is all for my mother. Let me go get my mother. And so she drags her mother over. And I'm getting this. And she leads with, she says, she says, I brought you over here, mom, because my goddamn grandmother won't give me any messages. And when she said that, her earring flew off her ear onto the table. She wasn't shaking her head or anything. This earring just flies off her ear onto the table. And she You if you want to see someone who's sobered up in like two seconds, she was like Do you think that was my grandmother? And didn't really know, but I thought I said yes. ⁓ because I wanted her to be quiet. And ⁓ and that that did it. I s I said yes, I do think that was your grandmother. You just swore at her. And ⁓ so she kept quiet the rest of the reading. Which I thought was good, and her mother got a really nice reading that she paid for. ⁓ Maria (35:00) you Melissa (35:02) I will say our most eventful events for the readers is always wine and spirits. ⁓ Mm-hmm. JIm (35:09) It's a good event. It really is. It's a great event. Maria (35:09) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Melissa (35:14) But ⁓ when you have a crowd that size, you're gonna get all sorts of coming through for their meetings. JIm (35:21) Yeah. But she was the only one. All the times I've done it, she was really the only one that I was kind of like, Wow, you are really overserved. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Melissa (35:36) Now I know before readings, Jim, ⁓ you always like cleanse your space and everything for not only like your spiritual, but for your your client. ⁓ was that something you kind of picked up intuitively for you to just to make sure all of that, you know, nothing left over is going to either attach or muddle up the information or, you know, like how important and why, you know, are you doing it? JIm (36:03) Right. Well, I I think I just like to at least in my head create a space that a spiritual space. ⁓ not that the people before me haven't, ⁓ be you know, because I know every different people use those rooms and and probably do similar. ⁓ but I do I like to just kind of level set, right? Let's just let's just clear it out for now and ⁓ then I guess I should probably start clearing it before I leave too, now that you're bringing it up. I'm like, I'm leaving my job behind. But I just, yeah, I'm like, hey, maybe I should do that before I leave. But ⁓ but yeah, so so I do that and I I don't always I used to sage before. I don't do that as much. I ⁓ I really kind of more say a prayer. Melissa (36:38) Leaving your junk behind, Jim. Maria (36:43) You JIm (36:59) And I invite in white light in into the room. And I always pray right before ⁓ I do any reading for so if there's eight people, there's eight prayers. And and I just always ask that ⁓ messages come through for the highest and greatest good of the person sitting in front of me. and and then I it depends too. Like some readings are more intense than others. So I can't say that after everybody leaves, I always just like picture this thing where I I I run water through my body and cleanse the old stuff out. It's a visualization I've I've done. but if an a reading's really, really intense, that I will do that. I will kind of picture the the spirit that ⁓ was through with them being carried downstream in a very gentle way, not in a mean way, not a rocky stream. ⁓ just kind of gently going so I can clear the way for the next one to to come in. Melissa (37:58) Do you have some? Maria (37:58) So this is your version of disconnecting with the previous client. Yeah, you're disconnecting the cord. Okay. JIm (38:03) Yes. That's tr that's right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. So and then the next one comes in and it it feels clean to me then. Yep. Maria (38:14) Mm-hmm. Melissa (38:19) What would you recommend for somebody who has stepped into sobriety, be it new or binaral, but they're stepping into spirituality? Are there spiritual practices that you would recommend for them to not only nourish their spiritual development, but also their sobriety? JIm (38:37) Yes. ⁓ so for me meditation is is big. ⁓ I think that ⁓ and again ⁓ all any kind I I there's all kinds of ways to meditate. And ⁓ I think for me if you're gonna look at sobriety and spirituality and improving, I think that's ⁓ for me it's an easier way. and and I've done lots of different for right now I kind of like more of a silent meditation. I just like to hear nothing. sometimes I'll do what's called sitting in the power, Martin Twycross on YouTube. If you ever want to go and do a nice meditation, Martin Twycross is is great. Tony Stockwell has some some good ones on there too, where you're you're kind of you're you're you're visualizing the light ⁓ in the area where you would feel your soul. You know, that my belief is we have a soul. And so A lot of times for me that's located somewhere between the heart and the stomach and ⁓ and I picture that kind of with lots of bright light expanding out and then a light coming in connecting and ⁓ then I try to hold that connection and in that light and in that silence, ⁓ sometimes I get nothing and sometimes it's quite interesting, some of the messages I get or who comes through. ⁓ and I've learned that when I kind of do it this way without the intent of wanting to connect to a family member or someone that has crossed over in my life, I get a more clear picture and message from them because 'cause I'm not trying too hard to get that. ⁓ and so it comes through. So so I think doing those connect doing those meditations with the intent of connecting to ⁓ what I would call a an unseen force or a higher being. or good orderly direction, whatever what however you define your higher power, that is what I would recommend. You know, if it were if you were Wiccan, it might be s ⁓ some other deity or but whatever. It's connecting to that, that what for that what you believe is greater than yourself. ⁓ that's what I recommend. So for me, prayer and meditation are are important. And ⁓ what else spirituality and sobriety. ⁓ yeah. And of course You you you have to commit to the more human things too. You know what I mean? Like so the if I were drinking I don't think I'd be able to meditate or it would be really weird. Like I can't even imagine at at this point what that would be like. That I that would just be weird. for me. But ⁓ but yeah, I I'm big on meditation and I always tell people who want to ⁓ like improve their mediumship. That's kind of the Number do that. Find a place in your home. Try to meditate in that same space every day at about the same time. That way spirit's gonna know where you are, when you wanna contact them. ⁓ it's kinda like I'm here, same place, same time, every bat s what is same bat time, same bat channel. Remember Batman? Yeah. and I I think it makes it easier for spirit to to find you and and connect with you. So the Melissa (41:52) Mm-hmm. JIm (42:01) I I think I answered the question. Okay, good. Melissa (42:04) You did. ⁓ Would you say being able to set like healthy boundaries even with clients be really important too? Maria (42:04) Yeah. Yeah. JIm (42:11) Hmm. Yes. For sure. Yeah, I I think that ⁓ I think that's important for anybody, ⁓ to be able to say say to a person what works for you and what doesn't. and d I know that's really hard for that's hard for me sometimes, right? You don't want to disappoint somebody. You don't want you want every I don't know, I mean I I have a codependent streak and I want people to like me, right? So ⁓ you don't wanna have to be the guy with the unpopular request or the unpopular opinion. But at the same time, if you if you're not, you're not true to yourself and you you've got to be true to yourself first. And I don't mean selfish, but knowing your values, knowing what works for you and being okay to say that to people. that with w and again if they're d the way I look at it these days is my intent is not to disappoint anybody. So if ⁓ so if you're disappointed that's those are your feelings and you're a big boy or a big girl and ⁓ you can you can handle those feelings. ⁓ and if you can't find a therapist. So Yay, I love therapy. ⁓ had plenty of that too. ⁓ Melissa (43:28) Yay therapy. Maria (43:31) you JIm (43:34) So so yeah, I I I do I think boundaries are important. And then you asked about with clients that that yeah, sometimes you you do have to say to I mean, and I got really good at that because I was a mental health therapist for for a while. And you you have to set a lot of boundaries with folks and it it was easier to do in that context. I have to say that with the mediumship sometimes it's a little bit harder 'cause You're, you know, you feel like you're connecting with someone and sometimes there's even kind of a bit of an emotional connection. and ⁓ so but but yeah, I've had it's been rare that I've had a lot of skeptics or people that come in, you know, kind of with the arms crossed and you know, what are you gonna tell me? ⁓ but in those cases, sometimes I have had to set some boundaries and and say, look, I'm, you know, here's the thing. You know, I I'm not sure that ⁓ this is for you right now. But you know, you you I've I've been doing this for fifteen minutes. You don't seem very happy. So this is the point where either you can have your money back or we continue with the reading and ⁓ there's n there's no going back after that. So what do you want to do? And it never feels good to say that. And I haven't like I said, I think I've had to do that maybe twice. But every once in a while that happens. Or if somebody comes in and they do kind of have the stiff stance and their arms crossed, like like I'll say to them, Can you can you just try to relax a little bit? Could you please uncross your arms? Put your hands in your lap, take a couple breaths. That and again I think that's a way of setting a boundary and kind of saying, Hey, this is a safe space. There's no reason, you know, you're putting up a guard right now. No reason to do that. And yeah. Maria (44:58) Thank JIm (45:27) So so yeah, drawing boundaries in life is is important too. You know, you you again, you gotta be true to yourself. So it's not just mediumship or with clients, but you know, in in the real world. ⁓ you you have to be a and I and I always say, you know, ⁓ it's doing it in an assertive way. So you and and for me, assertive is mean what you say, but don't be mean when you say it. So I I can yes, so I can set the boundary with you and it and be nice. Maria (45:27) Yeah. Melissa (45:51) Mm. I like that. Maria (45:51) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. JIm (45:56) I don't have to be mean when I set the boundary. I think when I was first learning to be assertive, ⁓ probably was a little more like, ugh, you know, like you're not doing this. ⁓ and because when you go from passive to and you try to go to assertive, you kind of have to swing a little bit radically before you find center. And I I think I'm pretty good at center right now where I I can say to someone, I really don't agree, or Maria (46:17) Mm-hmm. JIm (46:25) I'm not going to talk about this with you. You know, in this political world right now, I've had a lot of those, you know, I'm just not going to talk about this with you right now. But why? But hey, I don't got to give you a reason. Let's drop it. You know, that kind of thing, you know. ⁓ you know, and it is funny because sometimes if you're you're assertive, people do want to be offended and you're like, my, my intent wasn't to offend, it's just to take care of myself. Maria (46:33) Mm-hmm. Melissa (46:37) Mm-hmm. Maria (46:37) Yeah. Melissa (46:53) You know, you're having a good evening or day and you want to keep it that way and that conversation usually does not lead to that. So and and I can vouch, you know, when you've it's been rare, but every now and then I've heard you have to kinda say something. And it's usually towards the end of the reading where the client is trying to get you to keep going or to be like, No, our time is up. You know. Maria (46:54) Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. JIm (46:56) That's yeah, I see us. That's right. ⁓ yeah. Maria (47:15) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Melissa (47:20) And and sometimes like if I know already like your next person, 'cause usually you are back to back. And if I'm hearing that they're not taking the hint to get out, like I will go find that other person and go, Hey Jim, so and so is here ready to go, you know, to help kind of cut that. You know, I I've had to do that for Maria too, with with people. So JIm (47:26) Yes, I am. Yeah. Maria (47:40) yeah. Yeah. Yeah. JIm (47:40) Yeah. Yeah. I I've gotten so much better with that. And 'cause I do remember in the beginning I'd be like, my God, I'm running over, I'm running over. And ⁓ and again, that's that people pleaser in me, right? That I want to give you everything I got. And ⁓ I think what I've started to do well, I will say this too, when I'm doing a mediumistic reading, I lose sense of time. So that that's an issue. ⁓ Maria (47:54) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. JIm (48:05) I I do tend to but I but I have my phone right there and what I try to do is get to about three minutes before the end, maybe four minutes, and then just try to recap. So here's what we've gone over and and people are pretty good if I I just say, Hey, you know what? I'm I'm booked. I got, you know, I'm here one to five and and we're booked on the half hour. So I you know, I got somebody waiting out there. Gotta go. Yeah. Melissa (48:30) Mm-hmm. I don't even let you go pee between one and five. So there are no pee breaks that got a sele. JIm (48:33) You do it's true. Very, very rude. ⁓ Which is difficult because I also for mediumship you've got to stay hydrated. ⁓ so you gotta keep drinking that water. And she's just kidding. I I get I I do get a pea break. So ⁓ yes, it's it it it does happen. ⁓ but do I do I drink a lot of water when I do mediumship? I think that's ⁓ that's it keeps your brain in a in a good space. Maria (48:37) You Melissa (48:50) Yeah. Maria (48:50) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah, I do that. I do that too. I noticed that I do that a lot when I'm in the readings or healings. You know, I just take a little sip and yeah, I noticed that. JIm (49:16) Yep. Yep. Have to. Maria (49:20) Yeah. Melissa (49:23) Just making sure we went over all of the important things. JIm (49:28) It's all important. ⁓ Melissa (49:30) Yeah, it it is all very, very much ⁓ important. ⁓ Maria (49:31) are all important. Melissa (49:40) I think the last thing we haven't really covered yet is the reclaiming hope, identity, and inner strength. And and you've touched on it a little bit, but you know, the importance of reclaiming that part of yourself. How did you notice that you were starting to do that? JIm (49:46) Mm. Maria (49:49) Mm-hmm. JIm (49:49) Right. Mm. Yeah, that's a that's that part about reclaiming identity is really an ⁓ that's an interesting topic because ⁓ you do lose sense of who you are when you're in the throes of addiction. you know, y and then you get into I I remember, you know, getting into recovery and like the first year, you're just really kind of focused on staying sober. Like it it's just like this day at a time and you have all this support. And in the second year for me anyway was kind of really when I started waking up and going, who the hell am I? Like what what I'm really not that guy anymore. ⁓ and I'm I've gotten I'm I'm doing pretty good. I got a year under my belt, but I don't even know who I am now. I, you know, or or what direction I want to go in. ⁓ and so I kind of stayed Like I've always been in the field of mental health, so that that was good. But it was odd as a mental health practitioner to kind of be experiencing an identity crisis, right? 'Cause I certainly couldn't be the guy who sat next to Wilma Smith and and, you know, call me ⁓ th I I couldn't be that guy. And that I was that guy a lot. I mean, I I when I got sober Maria (51:19) You JIm (51:27) I like half the people were like, no, you were so much fun. And the other half were like, Thank God, you you you were on, you know, you boarded on obnoxious and you know, and we could see you were on a road to to nowhere. So, ⁓ so yeah, so I couldn't go back to ⁓ I thought I thought life would do you remember Tom Green? at all, the Tom Green show. Like he yeah. So it's probably like a nineties thing. and I like I wanted to be Tom Green. I thought that would be fun to go around. And you know, second year of being sober, I'm like, d y no you you you don't want to be Tom Green. ⁓ who do you want to be? I I don't know. And so that took time. ⁓ Maria (51:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. JIm (52:17) And you just kind of had to sit with you know, just like whenever you're in any kind of dark spot or any kind of indecisive spot, I believe you have to sit in it. And and because you're drinking, drugging, that's I was avoid you avoid it when you're doing that. But sometimes you have to sit in it, experience it and and work through it. And that's what I had to do to to get to a space where I was comfortable with who I was sober. ⁓ God, I remember like dancing, you know, sober. And I was like, ⁓ this is so awkward. ⁓ because I I only danced when I was drinking, right? And it do I like this? Am I comfortable with this? Do I enjoy dancing? I don't know. ⁓ I remember like one of the reclaimings that I did was reading. Because when I got drunk, I I'm gonna read a book. And I didn't want to read one hungover either. I so I didn't read anything for like five years. And ⁓ I remember like like it was in my first I remember this vividly. It was like in my first 90 days of sobriety, and I had to call my sponsor every single day. ⁓ and I had to call him after a meeting because I had to drive by a this one bar I used to go to to get home. And so he would be like, You call me after you drive by that bar. All right. So I would do that, and I remember. My joy was after talking to him, I got to read. Like, and I know that sounds really basic and but it was kind of like a reclamation. It was like I used to love to read. I lost this. Right. ⁓ I used to love movies, I stopped going. ⁓ there were all these things that you start I used I I love to travel. ⁓ but even in like I I can tell you more stories about some of my traveling. I did drunk. Now was it fun? Yes. I don't remember a lot of it though. I mean, how sad. You know, I have these pictures and I'm like, did I do that? but you kind of you yeah. So you start to reclaim these things and life becomes more full and you start to kind of see, here's here's what I was meant to do and here's what I was meant to be. And ⁓ and it's nice because you start to align more with your values. ⁓ Melissa (54:13) Yeah. JIm (54:38) you know, I've always been a I like to help other people. I you know, I like to ⁓ I've always kind of been a I group for the underdog. That's kind of always been my my thing. And when you drank, I couldn't do that. So so it was about reclaiming that 'cause you do lose your right you lose who you are. And and ⁓ it like I said, it probably took a good five years before I really started to go, ⁓ yeah, I think I'm feeling com starting to feel comfortable with who I am and and what I am. Melissa (54:56) Mm-hmm. JIm (55:08) ⁓ and even today sometimes I'm like, I don't know why what what what am what am I doing in life? What am I doing right now? so but but I think important, it's so important when you're establishing an identity to have a like a set of I don't wanna say rules, but know your know your values, know your standards. That's what's gonna guide you. I mean, and I and I think initially Maria (55:17) you JIm (55:37) ⁓ Alcoholics Anonymous really helped me with that, with the 12 steps and taking inventory and all that. But then over time you find other things. And I and I think, you know, the the religion of spiritualism does that for me now. There's nine, there's nine principles. It's not dogma. They're recommended, suggested principles. I think those are healthy and those help put guardrails up for me. And I think there's certain honesty and selfishness, love and purity. I mean, you you look at those values and so I don't know that it matters what you're doing as long as you're kind of have these guardrails that that kind of keep I want to say keep they keep me honest, right? ⁓ so I don't know. That's that's kinda I think I think hat ex self examination is really important in establishing identity and it's it's sometimes very painful to do it and ⁓ but but I think it's necessary. So Melissa (56:37) Well, I can vouch for your reading 'cause you and I have exchanged books. you know. ⁓ I was like, We should do the Goddess Elite book code. Except now the books I read, you probably you'd be like, Why are you reading this? JIm (56:41) Yes. we should. Ha ha ha I'm reading Train right now by Patty Smith, who was a punk rock singer, punk poet. And ⁓ she did Because the Night. So she was the one who did Because the Night. ⁓ she's brilliant. And so she wrote a book called Just Kids. That's about her and Robert Maplethorpe. It's brilliant. And now I'm reading Train, which is a really it's really kind of weird. but I've been sticking with it and it's poetic. It's just really this She somehow manages to write about her life and her dreams and meshes it all together on this weird timeline. And it for some reason it works. I I don't I don't know why. But yeah, I'm that person who buys a bunch of books and there's no way I'm ever gonna read them all. yep, I know we connect there. Maria (57:43) you ⁓ Melissa (57:46) And there's still a bookcase over there. There's still a pile of books on an edit table in my room. One of these days I'll get through them all. ⁓ Therese asks, did your sober journey help you discover your purpose more? Just curious. And hi all. JIm (57:50) yeah. yeah. Yes. I I think so. And and like I said, I I I think I think my purpose has been I mean, like the you know, the name of the show is about heal healing and I and I do think that that's that's been I think it's been my purpose all along. I just don't know how in touch I have been with that idea. ⁓ but I'm telling you, I think once that you like like getting into mediumship has It's changed my life. And getting into spiritualism has has changed my life because it it did help me recognize more that ⁓ that that ⁓ what I do it influences other people. Not that I'm a influencer online or anything like that, but the anybody, the way you act, the the intent that you throw their way, it it you you have the power to positively or negatively influence people. And I think for me the the greater purpose is to try to be a positive influence. Even if sometimes even if I'm negative, I try to make it humorous so at least somebody laughs. ⁓ but ⁓ but you know, I guess that's probably a justification. But ⁓ but ⁓ you know, I mean if you're gonna be negative, you might as well be funny about it. But ⁓ but but yeah. So I I think that it's about trying to and again not trying to influence people, but I think if if if If you you're if you you're I think the purpose is broader. Like if you would have asked me 20 years ago, what's your purpose? ⁓ I think I probably would have talked about what job I wanted or maybe it was to to play music or I you know I don't know. It probably would have been a very specific answer. And now it's it's a little bit more of a broad answer, and that would be to try to ⁓ bring out the positive in people and And like I said, it's just funny how like I think once I started doing spirituality, got sober, got more spiritual, and just weird doors start opening, you know, like you're you're I'm exposed at work to something called conscious discipline and it's supposedly for kids, but there's so much in it that that is for the adults. I mean, it it there's seven commit principles and you're just like, my lord, these yeah, if I can do this, I'll be a good person. and then ⁓ there there was something else I was thinking about. yeah. And then there was a thing called reflective supervision that I got got into and ⁓ didn't want to do it, I will tell you. It when it started out, it was I was like, ⁓ and I do, I remember a conversation with my sister. I was like, This is so stupid. That it's all touchy feely and you know, if If you were an animal, what animal would you be based on your feelings? And I was over it and but I was forced to be in it. So you have a choice, right? You can resist and be miserable, or you can ⁓ open your mind up and be a little more happy. And I I did choose to do because I believe what you resist persists. It you're just gonna get it in another form. And so Maria (1:01:20) Mm-hmm. JIm (1:01:22) So yeah, so I kind of opened up my mind, started kind of going, maybe there's something to this. And not only did we have to do a two-year, the people that were making us do this first two-year thing said, mm, yeah, that one wasn't good enough. We got to do two more years of this. And ⁓ yeah, so you can imagine how overjoyed I was. And but I will tell you, the second two years. changed my life. I mean, it changed it changed the way I talked to my coworkers. It changed the way I did supervision. It went from me kind of directing to me kind of asking the questions that helped them think and solve their own problems in from a really empathic way. And again, drinking, I'd have never been open to any of that. You know, this now none of this would have happened. ⁓ and and it is, I mean you I look at reflective supervision and I'm like, this is a really whether you there's there's we don't talk about God, but it's a really spiritual kind of practice. It's very respectful and empathic and ⁓ it's it's and it's not as touchy feely as you original like you think it is, but it's a fooler. Cause it you when you get people to reflect sometimes, you know, it slaps you in the face a bit, right? Like, ⁓ he asked a question that made me think about something I didn't really want to look at. ⁓ Melissa (1:02:50) Mm-hmm. JIm (1:02:51) Yeah, you know, so I think that's I hope that answered your question, Teresa. I tend to ramble. I'm sorry. Okay. Melissa (1:02:58) I I think it did. And hello Teresa. Like I didn't realize which Teresa was because it doesn't show me the full name until it's already up on screen. It's like, it's hard. The joys of being the host and clicking all the buttons. ⁓ Now, Jim, you you read in store pretty consistently on some Sundays. You lead a development circle on the first Tuesday of the month. Maria (1:02:59) You JIm (1:03:08) Ha ha Right, we love it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Melissa (1:03:29) To where you are helping other people find their spiritual practice and their psychic ability. And I give you very much kudos of how different you tend to make each week, knowing that not everybody operates the same way. So, you know, you go out of your way to help people figure out what their best way of experiencing is. ⁓ JIm (1:03:34) Yes, Mm-hmm. Yeah. Melissa (1:03:55) So if you're in the Cleveland area, you can come meet Jim in person, get a reading, sit in development circle. Jim, are you doing anything online currently? JIm (1:04:07) I am not. No. I'm I have so we have I have the Clegg Road ⁓ mediumship development coming up, but that's sold out. So that's Friday and Saturday. And ⁓ then I I'm with you guys I think like three Sundays in November. I'm really not doing much online. I do phone readings on Saturdays, but not not a lot of them because I have a full time job and I you know I need a day. So Maria (1:04:36) You JIm (1:04:37) So I'll do phone readings. I don't do any readings ⁓ typically after a day of work because I I'm tired. And again, I I I wanna be if I'm gonna do the work for somebody and for their greater good, I I wanna be in the best place possible. ⁓ so I that's that's why I don't. And to just kind of comment about development, it is set up that way. It's set up so that so you Melissa (1:04:38) Yeah. JIm (1:05:04) Maybe you'll come to one and you're like, ⁓ I didn't you know, they did they did drawing and colors and stuff and I didn't like that wasn't for me. The next one's gonna be completely different. We might do something completely different, ⁓ development wise. ⁓ so it does change a lot and I do try to respect different styles. ⁓ I'm a more English style. ⁓ and but I'm okay if you come in and you're not. I mean, if if you've got a method, I I you know, I'm not gonna ⁓ I will try to influence you a little bit to to try something new, but again, I'm I'm not gonna tell you, that's wrong. You know, unless it truly is kind of something that's not ethically okay. Or, you know, if you're telling people you have to be very careful with words you use sometimes. So I I mean I'm I'm always, you know, there's I I'm I'm seeing some darkness around you. Well, co no no no no no, you don't no. Melissa (1:05:42) Mm-hmm. Maria (1:05:56) ⁓ JIm (1:06:03) You don't say that to somebody. ⁓ unless you have specifics. You know, what's the darkness? I don't know. I'm seeing something with a car. ⁓ my lord, just stop it. Just stop it. Just you know I you don't want anybody walking out of the store going, you know, my God, what do you should I get in my car and drive? I don't know what I should do. ⁓ so that's the only yeah. Yeah. So that's the only time I would probably stop something. Like Melissa (1:06:05) Mm. Right. Am I gonna have a rag? Is what's going on? You know. JIm (1:06:32) But but again, if it comes down to style, then then I'll work with you on your style if it's different than mine. I mean, that's that's not everybody does things ⁓ the same. And and sometimes too, like people in group will know I know how to set boundaries there too. Cause well, people get excited and then they start everyone starts talking at once and I'll be like, Stop We have we have to get on task. ⁓ Yeah. Melissa (1:06:45) Is it? Maria (1:06:55) No. Melissa (1:07:02) Well, and I will say that the group that you have built over the years, you have a really good core group that supports one another, that keeps coming, that maybe they can't make it every week because of work, adulting, you know, things come up with family. But they always, you know, they come back and they support one another. So Maria (1:07:17) Okay. JIm (1:07:22) That's right. Melissa (1:07:23) That's what I also like to tell people, you know, if you're stepping into this and you're you're tipping your toes and you know, maybe you have a family that would tell you you're gonna burn in hell, you know, or whatever, and you're looking for a supportive group, like the development circle is going to be that. You know, ⁓ you will you will find a tribe, you know. JIm (1:07:40) Absolutely. Maria (1:07:42) Yeah, yeah, yeah. JIm (1:07:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You will. And you won't be judged. I mean, that's that's the thing is, you know, that's what I always tell people, like this is the place where you can try it out, right? And no one cares if you're wrong or you're right or where you start. We've all been there. And, you know, so you're not gonna be so if you go to a reading and and the person's like, I can't understand that, no one's gonna judge you. It's it's just gonna be like we all understand you're there to learn. And Maria (1:07:47) Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Melissa (1:08:12) Yeah. JIm (1:08:13) And yeah, and we at c at our core we are kind of all entertaining the same belief, right? That life continues ⁓ a spiritual life or energy continues after our physical life. So yeah. Maria (1:08:29) Mm hmm. Yeah. Melissa (1:08:31) Marie, did you have any last final questions for Jim? Maria (1:08:37) Not a question, but a comment. have sent a lot of people that I come across that I know that they have the gifts or certain avenue and I have recommended Jim's class. Please go down and check it out, see what you can do to take control of your abilities. We need a lot more people who can control their abilities and you get to know yourself along the way. JIm (1:08:53) Thank you. Maria (1:09:06) also and find out who you are and that you're more than just a physical being just going through life adulting. Yeah. JIm (1:09:14) That's right. Melissa (1:09:17) Right. You know, sometimes like y I'm sure you've you've both seen it's it's like a meme that says something like, I was born to do more than just go to school, go to work, pay taxes and die. You know. And this could be one of those things that you're born to do more of of you know, development not only for yourself and personal but spiritual and mental health and mental, you know, things and expanding that world around you and Maria (1:09:28) Mm hmm. Yeah. JIm (1:09:34) Yes. Maria (1:09:42) Mm-hmm. Melissa (1:09:46) Helping people. because that is a rule that I have for my readers, is that that when the client's reading is done and they're leaving our building, they should be leaving in a better space than when they came in. So you should not be putting fear into them with whatever you're giving in the reading. And I know both of you are really good that even if it was like something's up with the car, you know, instead of like, my god, you're gonna have a car wreck. I know both of you are gonna be like. JIm (1:09:48) Yeah, right. Melissa (1:10:16) You know, it's probably a good time to get some maintenance done and get those tires checked. Here comes Ohio winter, you know, and and be like, yeah, you're right, I should go do that to where, you know, you put a positive spin on it to get them ready for winter instead of like you have no tread on your tires and you're going to crash, you know? Maria (1:10:20) Yes. Yes. JIm (1:10:35) Right. Well, 'cause the 'cause the other thing too is sometimes we're wrong, right? I mean, so I would say ⁓ most of the time I'm pretty dead on, but there's times, you know, you'll you'll get some names and they're like, nope, absolutely it's not true. Now sometimes those people will email you later and say, I didn't you know you were right. But sometimes you you can be wrong. So I that's why you should stay away from those kinds of ⁓ stronger statements, ⁓ because you could also just be wrong. Melissa (1:10:44) Mm-hmm. JIm (1:11:09) And so yeah, so you're seeing whack of treads on a tire. Are you sure that's literal or could it be a metaphor? ⁓ you know, it it's there's yeah. So you gotta be careful. Maria (1:11:17) Yeah. Melissa (1:11:23) Yeah. Maria (1:11:23) Mm-hmm. Yeah. JIm (1:11:24) And that's like I said, that's the only thing I would stop if it were in a class that I would see would be like, ⁓ let's reword that. And I learned that early on. I can't remember what I was. I think I used the word impending or something. and like I was studying with Sharon Klingler and she was like, uh-uh. When you hear the word impending, what does that bring up for you? And I was like, ⁓ right. Gotcha. Yeah. Connotation. Yeah. Maria (1:11:54) Mm-hmm. Melissa (1:11:57) Yeah, not a good feeling. It's it's instant dread and ⁓ my God, what is coming? You know. Maria (1:12:00) Yeah. JIm (1:12:03) Yep. Yep. Melissa (1:12:05) Yeah. Well thanks for coming, Jim, hanging out with us, sharing your story. You know, it's good to see you 'cause I haven't gotten to see you in a little while 'cause we were crossing paths in the store and Maria (1:12:09) Yeah. JIm (1:12:10) That is my pleasure. So fun. I know. Maria (1:12:18) Yeah, haven't seen him in a while. Yes. JIm (1:12:19) I know. I it's been Maria, it's been really long. ⁓ I saw you a couple of weeks ago briefly, I think, but ⁓ maybe it was like three weeks ago. I don't know. It was it but I hadn't seen you forever. And ⁓ and Melissa, yeah, we usually will see each other at the beginning and then by the time I get out you're gone. And I'm like, damn. So ⁓ so yeah, it's it we should probably get together and just hang out a little bit. That would be the thing to do. Melissa (1:12:39) Mm-hmm. We should. We should have like a goddessilly reader healer like get together, you know, after hours one night and like find a find a good restaurant to go just chill and you know, reconnect. ⁓ Maria (1:12:47) Yeah. JIm (1:12:50) Yes. Just hang. Maria (1:12:58) Mm-hmm. JIm (1:12:59) Yeah. But yeah, I'll I got stories if you wanna ever have me back. I've I've got I got stories. Melissa (1:13:05) I'm telling you, Jim, you I I you are probably the one psychic medium. I love you, Larry, 'cause you was in chat. He's got a book. I love Larry. I haven't sat and read Larry's book. JIm (1:13:15) I love Larry too. I'm just getting to know Larry and I think he's a wonderful person. Melissa (1:13:21) Jim, your book, I I wouldn't be able to wait to read because you have told me some of these stories. And you're right, you were hilarious. And I'm like, this would be a fun one to read. And that journey that you that you were taking. And honestly, I think, and and again, love you, Larry. Love you, Greg, if you listen to this later, because Greg also has a book. I have skinned through both. But JIm (1:13:37) It would. Melissa (1:13:51) You know, for for somebody who might be going through a very similar instance, I think the way you would put that book together, you would not be talking down to them. You would not be preachy. You know, they would be able to relate and like and, you know, experience that journey with you and then probably by the end of that book be able, I can do this too. You know. So, I I think what I JIm (1:14:02) No. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's what I would hope. Melissa (1:14:19) I think we should have another episode of just gym stories. Cause I know you told me one, two. How what were you doing? Something to do where like people were on the outside, you were in the inside, and you either lock them out or you were making a noise or something. I'm like, what? So Yeah. I'm like, wow, you haven't said that one before, and you're right, that's hilarious. JIm (1:14:34) I don't know. Maria (1:14:36) you JIm (1:14:41) I don't know them. Maria (1:14:48) you Melissa (1:14:49) so but I will say, Jim, if I were in your group of people wh when you were drinking, I would be that one that would mess with you. Like I was that friend when the drunk people were sitting around, I would gather the keys of all the drunk people and go move your cars two or car two or three streets away. Number one, so you couldn't drive them, and it's gonna be funny to me that you all think your cars were stolen. And then watch you try to find them in the morning. I was that person. JIm (1:15:03) ⁓ Maria (1:15:11) you JIm (1:15:13) Well, unfortunately there were times where I parked my own car and then couldn't find it. which is the most horrible feeling ever. I mean, and that's what I mean. I was a blackout drinker. That's just not normal, right? I mean, y you I would park, go into the bar where I would dance, right? And then come back out. And I would be like, ⁓ I don't I don't know where I parked. And I look all over the street and I couldn't remember if I was on a side street or and it it's horrible. One time I had someone drive me home and I came back the next day and looked for my car. I mean that that's it, that's funny and not funny at the same time. You know what I mean? Like it it's it's one of those where you go, holy moly. ⁓ and those were right. Melissa (1:16:07) And this was before they all had the smart key fops, right? So you couldn't walk around hitting your panic button. So Maria (1:16:07) you Yeah. JIm (1:16:12) Yes, I'm old. So it was before it was before those were common. Mm-hmm. And and yes, I I and and then thinking there were also a couple of times where I thought I drove and I didn't. Melissa (1:16:25) No. JIm (1:16:26) ⁓ yeah, I came here with somebody else. And now I've gotta call a cab. Maria (1:16:34) you Melissa (1:16:36) Yeah, I think we I think we just need a gem stories, you know. JIm (1:16:40) The stories have to have a point though. It can't just be about like if I write this book, it's gotta be about and here's here's the spiritual piece. Here's where it got me, right? ⁓ 'cause cause the last thing I want to do is like ⁓ romanticize it, you know, because it's it's easy for me to do because there's a there was a lesson in all of it and like I said, it all it didn't all end well it today I can say it ended well, but back because Melissa (1:16:56) Right. Maria (1:16:57) Yeah. Melissa (1:17:06) Mm. 'Cause we have you and here you are. JIm (1:17:09) 'Cause yes, here I am and and I I like to think I'm a better person. But ⁓ but yeah, at when you're in it, it's not ending well ever. It's it's never ending well. Maria (1:17:09) Mm-hmm. Melissa (1:17:22) it would be a fly on the wall back then, Jim. ⁓ JIm (1:17:24) boy, would it be fun. For you. Maria (1:17:26) ⁓ Melissa (1:17:34) I feel like I would be that mom of the friend group too. Like before I mess with your cars, I'm gonna make sure you get home and you know you're not. JIm (1:17:39) You would. You would. Melissa (1:17:45) And I'm gonna lecture you in the morning. JIm (1:17:46) But the the but yeah the romanticizing is, you know, we even do that. Like I I remember I'd be driving home from a meeting and there I would I lived on Baltic Road and there was this billboard and it showed these people on a beach and it was for tequila, right? And so so marketing people are always romanticizing, you know, the use of alcohol. And I would, I'd be like, ⁓ God, I really miss those days. And my first sponsor was like, Maria (1:17:47) you JIm (1:18:15) Anytime you see something like that, put yourself in the image and fast forward. And what do you got? And I was like, yeah. They're normal. They're all walking home from the beach. I'm waking up the next day on the beach full of sand in vomit, not knowing where the hell my car is. that would no, I never threw up on myself, but I but he'd say fast forward, right? Melissa (1:18:37) Yeah. JIm (1:18:43) And that's and you would and then you're like, Yeah, not so romantic. Not for me, no. For them, yeah. ⁓ for me, no. Mm mm. 'Cause that wouldn't have been one or two drinks and a fun little volleyball game. That would have been a bottle. Yeah. Melissa (1:18:43) Mm-hmm. A bottle in the questionable life decisions happening, right? Maria (1:19:01) you JIm (1:19:03) ⁓ very qu very questionable. Yes. Like I said, so glad social media wasn't around back then. Melissa (1:19:09) I would if I would pay good money if there were videos of Jeff drunk dancing in the club. I would I would love to see that. JIm (1:19:14) You my God. Maria (1:19:15) You The bicycle on the bars on the bar table. Yeah Well, it wasn't okay JIm (1:19:24) Yep. On the floor, as on the dance floor. Melissa (1:19:26) It it was on the dance, yeah. Dance floor. But I'm still impressed that you had the balance while drunk to ride the bike. JIm (1:19:28) Yeah. Yep. I did quite well. Yep. Yep. And then the next day that so the kicker. So this the next day on my answering machine. First there's a message about Pee Wee Herman, who had the thing about the movie about the bike. Hey, Pee-wee. ⁓ did you find your bicycle? Blah, blah, blah. And then there was a some person singing, I want to ride my bicycle by Queen. And then so it and I was like, God. Maria (1:19:33) Yeah. You JIm (1:20:01) No, just this no, this sucks. I can't go in public again for a very long time. Melissa (1:20:05) Yeah. Maria (1:20:07) you Melissa (1:20:09) I vote the Queen I Want to Ride My Bicycle is now your anthem song. Because first of all, it's Queen and they're an amazing band. I don't care what anybody says, you know. And it's a very fun song for such a big band. So ⁓ And I like the mental image of you like happily riding your bike, you know, riding your bike. JIm (1:20:14) No They are. I love them. Maria (1:20:25) you JIm (1:20:26) Ha ha. Maria (1:20:32) ⁓ JIm (1:20:33) As I was. Melissa (1:20:37) Yes, but we don't want to romanticize 'cause you were not technically in a good spot when you were JIm (1:20:39) We we don't. No. No. And it and it right. And it didn't lead to a good spot. That was the that's always the thing you have to remember. You know, you go back and you're like, it was fun, but until it wasn't, right? Yeah. Maria (1:20:39) Mm-hmm. Melissa (1:20:55) Right. Well, Jim, we will have to have you back. Maybe get a little deeper in some spiritual stuff, maybe especially in the certain techniques and because you did mention like you do ⁓ an English style type of reading. So maybe we can go into like the differences and ways of, you know, promoting those different styles. JIm (1:21:00) And love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maria (1:21:08) Mm-hmm. Yeah. JIm (1:21:11) Talk about that, maybe. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we could talk about how spiritualism the effect that had on my mediumship as well, 'cause that had a big that was a big deal for me. Melissa (1:21:26) Hey, Larry. We still love you, Larry. I promise. I'll read your book more in depth cover to cover I feel bad safe. ⁓ He does. He has a book. ⁓ Greg has a book. ⁓ we're waiting on your book. and technically, one of my other readers, ⁓ he's got multiple books, but those are written as more as fiction. So Richie Groves has a book series. So we got a lot of talented readers in the store. ⁓ JIm (1:21:30) I didn't know Larry had a book, but I'll read it. Maria (1:21:33) you Yeah, yeah. JIm (1:21:41) One day. Mm. Melissa (1:21:55) And then you get into like Nadine, who does all of the artwork and designed an Oracle deck and J D with an Oracle deck. So they've got a lot of talented people, you know. Maria (1:22:02) Mm-hmm. Yeah. JIm (1:22:05) I love Nadine's art. I really do. Melissa (1:22:10) I asked her to get a little darker in the art because w of the the season that we're in and some of the shows I'm vending. And I'm like, Can you turn the cutesy animal and faces into like blacks and grays and dark blues and you know, help me s you know, at Oddity shows? And she's like, Well, maybe I think so. Those are the ones that are like I'm like, Nadine, I think you found your niche, on. JIm (1:22:33) Yeah. Melissa (1:22:34) You know, her other ones still sell but not as fast as, you know, like I just sold over the weekend it was like a tarantula with like real ⁓ of that spider webbing, you know, so it was like layered and you know, it sold and everything and I'm JIm (1:22:44) Yes. Wow. Melissa (1:22:50) The cute yet dark. Yeah, yeah. So her artwork's so cool. I've got two of hers here. I've got a the Ouija board one that survived the fire. I have that one here and a cute little bat one that that she painted for me. So but yeah, a lot of talented people. And Leary ⁓ is an author as well. So I feel like we should have a scholastic book fair in the store for all of our our reader our ⁓ our readers who are authors, right? JIm (1:22:51) So demographic. Maria (1:22:53) Mm-hmm. JIm (1:23:04) ⁓ Yeah. Nice. Maria (1:23:12) Mm-hmm. JIm (1:23:18) there we go. Melissa (1:23:20) Yeah. We'll tap into those scholastic book fairs we all loved as a kid and try to buy all of the Totchiki stip with the the stuff with the books and stuff, you know? All of those little erasers and yeah. The choose your own endings and everything else over there. So all right. For real this time. Thank you for joining, Jim. Yeah. But ⁓ yes, have a good night, everybody. Bye. Maria (1:23:21) Yeah. JIm (1:23:29) Yeah, I'll have to write a teaser chapter. All right. Sure thing. Thanks so much. See y'all later. Maria (1:23:42) Thank you. Bye. Bye.