Nature Mysticism & A Little Bit of Woo Woo

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Shaman talk. Haven't done this in a while. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a long time. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Yeah, just about a year. [00:00:19] Speaker B: And all three of us have gone through Zane's program and all of us practiced tradition very differently. So though you did call it a shaman talk. So I, I guess questions are not limited just to the Peruvian tradition that could be about anything if that we know the answer to. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Yeah, let's see what, what comes up, what people want to know about. I was thinking maybe next time if we do this, maybe see if Stacia joins us because she is the actual like Russian lineage and see how it compares. That would be interesting since that's where the word comes from. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably a nice place to start. Just to give a disclaimer that the word shaman actually comes from the Tuggas tribe of the Siberian region of Russia. And because of anthropologists, they lump all things, they're like, oh well this is like that, this is like that. And so like almost any native tradition is lumped under shamanism. And so it's kind of like an umbrella term today meaning healer in a way at least a nature based healer. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Right. I was going to say if I, you know, maybe I should have titled today as the, the Peruvian mysticism. But I was like, you know, I think people are more comfortable with the shamanism word and you know, you get. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Some people that are really bent out of shape with it. But like when I, when I took Zane's class and the first business card ever made, I put the word shaman on it and even some. One of my officemates gave me a really hard time about it. But if I put on paco, nobody knows what that is. But what our tradition is the Paco kuna tradition of Peru, which Paco means nature mystic. Kuna is plural for people. So like Pako kuna. So it's like the people's nature mysticism, but they're so similar. Like all the little things are similar, but they're all different. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Right, well and paco is a fun word to say too. [00:02:13] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, it's a funner word to spell. When I put, I did put it on a card once and then he's like, oh, you misspelled it. No, he didn't really say that. But because there's not really a true spelling to any of this stuff. It was all just an oral tradition and then they, they started writing it down or things later on. [00:02:30] Speaker A: So yeah, that was one thing I, you know, when, when Zane was like, there's no one way to spell Any of these words. [00:02:37] Speaker C: I'm like, what do you mean? [00:02:39] Speaker A: That makes the logic side of my mind, like short circuit a little bit. I'm like, ah. So I, I found in going back through some of my notes, like, certain words were spelled differently. And then I started writing next to, in parentheses, like the phonetic, you know, of it, of how he was saying and how we were learning it. So I would remember what that word was and, you know, how he was pronouncing it. But that might be another good place to start. So our common teacher, Don Zane Kurfman, and Hank you, his history more straight than I do of his lineage. Because I still feel like I need a giant wall erase, a dry erase wall of like, who taught? Who? Who taught? Like, how do we get down? [00:03:27] Speaker B: Yeah, we need, we need to put Zayn in a flowchart so he can see it all, you know. But Zayn, he was looking, he had like a vision of a particular. Was it a vision? He, he, like a serpent came to him in a vision and he saw like this one particular, like he was taught a healing modality or a way to do healing. And he started like looking for that and he found that it was this one tradition improve. So he like went there and this was at the same time at like Elizabeth Jenkins, who is going there and the guy who started Four Winds, they all kind of were going into Peru around this time and he went up with the llama and all that. Like, they went to the mountains, to the caro. And that was one of his first teachers. They throw the coca leaf to see if they're going to teach you or not. And they'll either let you come in and teach or they'll chase you off with stones and sticks and things like that. If the coca leaf says that they're not supposed to teach you and, and, and they allow them to teach and. But the thing that really, I think, kicked it off for him was he was doing a dispatcho for them. Like they did a dispatcho. And then he wanted to do dispatcho. And he did it so beautifully that the guide that had brought them to the village said to him, like, you know, I don't tell everybody this, but I'm actually a Paco. And we hold this one particular tradition. So he was learning from the carol in the mountains, but also from Cusco for a very specific tradition. He was learning another one. And he just found like the best of all these little teachers of these different traditions. And his tradition, the Qatar tradition of cross cultural shamanism is a blending of all these different things, of the mountain tradition, of the coastal tradition, a little bit of the jungle tradition. And that's why it's been so confusing for different students, different years. Because if you go through a second time, he might teach you completely different. The misha is different. And you're like, but that's always the last time. But he's doing a whole different spin. And it's not that it's wrong, it's just. It literally is different. And this tradition is so they say that the gold is in the differences. So don't relate away that this is like this and this is like that. It's like in the differences to gold. So it's not about wrongness. It's about like really seeing what's different and the magic and how you can apply these different things to, you know, to yourself and how you're living. [00:05:40] Speaker A: I think that's, that's what made it so comfortable for me to learn and practice. It's. It's like of all the things that I have trained in and under and you know, absorbed, like, this is the one thing that is usable day to day to day to day and easily applied. And the fact that there is the room to make it your own and what works for you. So, you know, that's one thing that I love telling people who might be interested in ever learning this. It's like, no, there's no set, you know, hard line rules with a section of like a very few. But, you know, there is that flexibility, you know, to weave in other teachings that you may have or you find a way that, you know, know, it might work better for you to do something slightly different. And I know Maria, like, you sat through it, you come have knowledge of some Hawaiian tradition. Like, do they have a, a word for that type of tradition? That's what I thought, but I didn't. [00:06:46] Speaker C: That's. That. Yeah, that's. That's what it is. It's kahuna. And they also. There's like different types of kahunas also. There's the, the, the traditional ritual kahuna that they call the elements. If they, if we need rain, if we need, you know, something like that. There's also hula is part of the tradition also because we're always giving honor to the land, to the elements. So it, we're dancing for the land. We're dancing and connecting to the natural and environment. And I know a lot of people think hula is actually, is a dance, but actually it's not. It's a ritual it really is. It's giving blessings and saying thank you to the land. [00:07:38] Speaker A: I did not realize it because it's always taught as a dance. [00:07:42] Speaker C: It's not. It. It was one of the very few because when Hawaii was invaded with the missionaries, they could not. The same thing with the Native American. They could not practice. So a lot of the kahunas went on the ground, but they noticed the dance was so beautiful, so they thought it was entertainment. It's not. It's actually a lot of the songs that we dance to has to do with nature and we're giving blessings and we're saying thank you. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really cool. [00:08:19] Speaker B: I did not know that. That's my fun fact of the day right there. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, add that to the list. [00:08:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:30] Speaker A: Now, would you? [00:08:31] Speaker C: So, and there's. There's also a lot of different. Different types. Like, you know, it's not just kahuna, there's kumus. There's also priests and priestess, you know, and they may be doing different. Various of the. Of the shaman, the Hawaiian shaman. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Now, were some of like the rituals or like procedures that you learned with Zayn? Were any of them slightly similar? Similar, yet different from what you have, you know, learned or experienced in Hawaii? [00:09:08] Speaker C: Well, when I dance hula, we had to create our own lace and our hakus and skirts. And that's. That's the old way of tradition. Nowadays they can go to the store and buy it. The staff. I know, I know it would have been more sacred if I created my own staff. But no, Maria decided to do the shortcut. But it is. It is something that. When. When you're creating delays and you're creating your tires and everything you are chanting, you are praying, you're putting all your mana into that garment, into that lei. And mana is energy. You're putting it all in. You're connecting with that garment, you're connecting with that lay. So it's just like making the staff, you know, when you guys were making the step, when we were making a staff and I decided to take the shortc. You know, and then also making, you know, creating our kin to, you know, our healing kin to, you know, that was putting our. Our energy into it, as well as the teachers, as well as the whole entire. And one that was present at that time is putting the energy into it. [00:10:28] Speaker A: So, yeah, Hank, you were the one that kind of brought Zane and his whole bag of shamanism goodies into our world. And that was just from a set of stones you were given, if I remember correctly. [00:10:45] Speaker B: Yep. In Fact, they've been on this desk forever because I think the last time I streamed like when I had them they were just, I never took them off the desk. But these are chumpy stones. And my friend Dave or Lasky who was my roommate at Fellowships of the Spirit when I was going through the two year program had gone to Peru with Ken Harsh who was like a, like the godfather of crystals in a way. Like he, he had a lot of different crystal books and did a lot of the shows and things. And the way he did his rock buying is he would go to the place he wanted to get rocks from, make a trip out of it and bring people with him and then he would ship all the stuff he wanted to sell back. But Dave went to all like 10 different villages and got like a different stone from each village and he got them for himself. But then when spirit we were at Inspiration Stump at Lilydale and Spirit said, give him the Hank. He's like, you got kid. And he gave them to me and not all of them but he gave me seven of them at the time of the 10. And he said, you know, he said I got these for you. I didn't know till years later that he never intended them for me. And it was like a spirit suggestion. And I said what are they? And he's like, they're chumpy stones. I'm like, how to use them? He's like, I have no idea. And so then I started googling chumpy stones and I found a book called Inkabout Magic and in that book there's a section on chumpy stones. And I reached out to Zane and he said, yeah, I can teach you that but that's part of a bigger thing to learn how to use them. And it's an apprenticeship. And I'm like, well what would it take? And he's like, well it'll be seven weekends and this is how many people. And that's when I went to Melissa. I'm like Melissa, I really want to do this thing but we need to build people who want to take this with us. And we started hosting zane for like one day and two day workshops and eventually got enough people. I think 2016 was our first one. Was it 2000? Like we hosted them I think started 2014 but I think the first program was like 15 or 16. [00:12:39] Speaker A: But so long ago. It feels like so long but yet not very long ago. [00:12:46] Speaker B: But. But these stones like there's all different ones but they have like the snake on it which is significant. The Tradition. There's a puma, there's a condor. Some of them have hummingbirds on them, some of them have coca leaf. They're all things very significant to the tradition. But that was the. What made me reach out to Zane. And now the real funny thing, I don't know if I told you this, after me and Zane were talking, Dave emails me. He took a class out of Reverend James out in like Erie. And he's like, oh dude, I just found this guy. He's gonna blow your hair back. Not that I have hair to blow back, but he sends me Zayn. So it was like a double validation from even this guy who gave me the stones that this is the guy I'm supposed to learn from. And like, I think it was after that that everything started rolling with hosting up for classes. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Now I will admit, you know, when we have classes at the store, you know, I get to sit in, right, because it's the building help market. I sit there, you know, learn the stuff. And quite honestly, I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, I, I wasn't expecting a lot. I wasn't, you know, I was like, ah, it's a class. We'll just, we'll just gather some information. And by the end of that first weekend, like I was all in. You know, probably the most profound class that I have taken in a long time. Just in that first weekend. And in, in reality, that first weekend isn't even. It's like we didn't do a whole lot compared to other weekends that were to come later. Like each weekend you thought like, wow, we did a lot and I'm tired. And then it's like Zane goes, hold my beer, wait till the next one. And you know, it just kept getting more intense and I was there for, for it each and every time and excited and a little sad every time. Those weekends ended because of the knowledge in the, the communal space and you know, as, as the apprenticeship went on watching everybody's mesa grow and how each one was similar yet completely different. And you know, that energy they put off being all together and creating that atmosphere. So when it was time to go home, I'm like, oh man, got a month before we do this again. But you know, I, I admit going in I was like, n. But yeah, by the end of Sunday I was all in. [00:15:14] Speaker B: I. My wish for everyone is to have the inspiration just to get in nature more because all these traditions, it's all about your relationship with nature. The only way you build that is by going out in nature. Like, I loved Maria Talking about the hula and like, that's you connecting and giving gratitude to the nature spirits. Like, how do you give gratitude to the earth? To what we call in our tradition Pachamama, which we just finished. Pachamama Roymi. It's like Mother Earth day in Peru. And August 1st through 4th, they have a four day celebration honoring Mother Earth. So just how do you honor nature, how do you honor each other is really a great thing. [00:15:57] Speaker A: So how did each of us get introduced? Well, I know, Hank, you have your chompy stone. [00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:07] Speaker A: You know, story and all things keep. Kept leading back to Zayn and bringing him in. And so you brought Zayn into the story, into me. And then I think it was the second or third apprenticeship that I finally roped Maria. And I'm like, you're gonna take this and you're gonna like it. And. [00:16:31] Speaker C: Well, it's. It's kind of funny because before Zayn did his first class, he did that mini class for healing, shaman healing. And I was like, you, Melissa? I was like, okay, I want to know why you're a fourth level priest. So I'll go ahead and take this class before the first class starts. So by the end of Sunday afternoon, I said, now I know why you're a fourth level priest. Oh, my gosh. Because he took us on that soul journey and I literally shape shifted. But when the apprentice class, the first year came up, for some reason, it. It cut. There was something else that I agreed to, so I couldn't take it. And I said, if I'm gonna miss the first weekend, forget it. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm gonna be kind of lost. I did not know that, you know, one of you two would, or even if Zayn would just get me catch up. I didn't know that. So I just said, you know, I'll just take it the next time it comes. And so, and Melissa did keep badgering me, are you gonna take it? Are you gonna take it? But I already had it in my mind. My great grandfather was a shaman. He was a medicine man. He didn't like that title. Shaman, medicine man he could live with. And I just didn't understand what he did. And I didn't understand this modality. And great deal of what he did is something that he was led to by spirit. He knew people who, who did this, and he observed them. But what he came up with was led strictly by spirit. So I want you to understand what he did. He's not here, of course. So Zayn was the next Best thing. So that's how I got into it. And at first I just wanted to understand it. Even though I know Zayn was pretty, you know, after that, that shaman healing class, I know he was a, you know, I go, okay, this, this man has a lot of clout. But like the first, the first time I was like, okay, let me see, let me understand what my grandfather, my great grandfather did. By the midway, I was like, oh, this is cool. I can work this in. [00:18:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, chair says for a newbie, can you say what are the main aspects of shamanism? Honestly, it's, it's getting to know nature and in tune. And you might ask like what is in tune? And it's not going to be the same for every person. It is learning to ask a question, be it of a tree near you, a flower growing near you, a rock that you might be holding. And you can ask it something as simple as what is your name? And you will get some sort of impression. Either a name, a feeling, something. You may not even be able to speak out loud. But once you start kind of making that connection and being aware that everything around you is alive life and can help you. And most of those, what most people perceive as non sentient, like rocks and things of that have way more knowledge than we as humans do and they are willing to help and teach us. So it's taking the time to just ask questions. I think it was the first year, Hank, I remember correctly, that Zane was like, go ask your stones their names. And at that time I kept my slowly growing mesa set up at the store on the backside of a wall and you know, had dropped runoff as school was running around before opening. And my God, were they loud of what their names were. They were like yelling over the wall and I'm like, all right, I'm coming. Like now that I hear you, let's sit down and write out, you know, what, what you're getting. And it's kind of like a muscle. The more you do it and take the time, the better that connection is and the better connected you are. Now, do either one of you have like a different. Like what is the main aspect to you guys for the shamanism? [00:21:01] Speaker C: Well, for me it was actually getting me back to mother Nature is building a relationship back that I didn't even realize I disconnected. I've always had that relationship when I was back in the islands because I was always on the beach or on the sand and the sun, I was always doing so I was always connected. But you know, in the four season State. I got disconnected. So I. It helped me. I regained my aloha, my aloha spirit. But I also regained a deeper connection with Mother Earth. That's. That's how I got into. Really deep into it. [00:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And the main aspects that are kind of common among all the. Most of the traditions, if not all that are kind of lumped under the term shaman is. We're already touching on it, but they use the word animism, that everything is conscious and then developing the relationship with nature. And then the last one, I believe, would be the belief in these different worlds, like the lower world, middle world, upper world, and the. The priest, the healer serving as a conduit between worlds, I believe are the connecting factors among many of the traditions. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:16] Speaker B: And sometimes Mother Nature is for me, too. That was the big thing. Like, I just started noticing after. After the first weekend, it's like walking outside with new eyes and, like, I. I've never noticed so many birds and flowers and everything. And I even had gone to the zoo with somebody, and, like, the animals would come out to, like, meet us, and they're like, well, I always want to go to the zoo with a shaman. Like, I don't know if it was really anything to do with me, but, like, they. They made a correlation with it, and it was kind of a cool thing. And it really, like, just the experience with nature in general, like a deer coming up on Port Hill and literally walking down the whole path with us. One time when me and Anya were out with the kids taking a hike, like, stuff like that, just magic in nature just started happening. And Marie's Point. Like, I never realized how disconnected, how much I was missing out on until all of a sudden it was there. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Even I forget which. Well, I. I remember the waterfall. I don't remember the name that we were at, but on the way back, like, we were climbing, like, this big hill all the way up, and I'm like, oh, good Lord, who picked this one? And, you know, Zane, bless us with the resting point. He's like, go meet the tree people. I'm like. [00:23:33] Speaker B: Sorry, I probably picked that spot. I don't know. [00:23:37] Speaker A: I think it was Brandywine. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, we did go. Well, the second year we went to Brandywine. The first year we went to some other one with, like. Or maybe we went to both. We went to the one that we just had, like, an overlook that first year. And then the second year we went to Brandywine for sure. [00:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was Brandywine that. It's like, going down was Nice and, you know, not so bad and, ooh, pretty and. And then all of a sudden, here comes this climb, and I'm like, oh, my God. I feel like, you know, we're. We're on a march here, you know, but. But even meeting, you know, the tree people, like, I. I think the hippies have something in it when they're like, go hug a tree. You know, make sure there's not poison ivy on it. But, you know, give it a gentle, like, nice to meet you, tree. I don't want to take remnants of your friend home on my skin later, but, you know, just that connectedness and the calm that comes with it, and, you know, that your body just kind of quieting down and just coming back to self and center and the feeling that you are connected in that. The perception you get of that nature that could be a mile or two or farther away of what's going on, it's like they bring you into that communication of that. That nature space. And it's amazing. So that. That's kind of, you know, some main important aspects of shamanism. So thank you for asking. Chair. If anybody else has questions, feel free. Free to ask. Now, Maria, you've sat in, what, two. Two times in the. [00:25:16] Speaker C: Twice. Yeah. [00:25:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Hank, you've beaten me because you've done even some of the hybrid ones. So you've been through it probably five or six times. [00:25:28] Speaker B: I don't even know enough times that one, like, I think twice. The last two times I went through, I had a whole different set of awarenesses with the different works at the different nature spots and like, clicked for me in different levels that I'm just like, oh, my gosh. I told. I get. Took. It took a while, but, like, not that I didn't get it before, but it was just, like, seeing it, like, make more sense or. I can't explain it, but it really hit me a different way the last time. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Last two times, yeah. I do find since taking the apprenticeship, I will just automatically, without even thinking about it, if I see larger birds of prey, you know, circling, you know, I send them things like, thank you for letting me see you, you know, for one. And, you know, usually when you see a bird of prey circling, there's something down low that they're. They're waiting on. But the fact that, you know, I've been given that gift of seeing them before they go into hunting mode, you know, I think is pretty cool. Seeing little. Little animals and yards and everything and how close you can. You can get. There's a Certain rabbit that I am determined that I will boop its nose at some point. It lets me get closer each time. But you know, that that automatic of giving thanks to certain, you know, nature beings now just comes so, so naturally. And being able to ask nature at the beginning of the day, like, hey, can you, can you help me? You know, just navigate through the day a little easier, you know, get. Get some knowledge that I might need without thinking like, wow, that might be silly to do now. It's like second nature to just do it. Not second guess the perception. Be it hearing something, seeing something, feeling something. Though I do think, Hank, maybe you can agree because Maria, I think you're. You automatically feel anyway. Maria's a big feeler. Whereas I and Hank, maybe you too like learning the feeling more versus expecting to hear or see. Like learning the, the feel for the answers coming back from nature. [00:27:55] Speaker B: For me it's just like I don't. I always struggled when I first, like, even started at fellowships because intuition didn't come the same way for me. I didn't see things, I didn't hear things. Feeling probably was my, my biggest one next to just knowing. And sometimes it's just like you just, it's just like almost like how a memory comes to you. I just have annoying as something and that's how it primarily comes. And then sometimes I get visuals and things. But definitely the program brought it up to a whole new. Whole new level of trusting it too. Because when as you're building relationships with the nature spirits and it's a consistent new friend, in a way, there's just validations that happen and consistency that helps build trust that I'm not crazy and I'm actually knowing what I'm knowing but. Or having something in our head. How often do you have something in your head and then Zane will say like, exactly what you're thinking in class. I just like, yeah, yeah, this. So just all, all that helped to build a lot of trust in my confidence of my own intuition and things. [00:28:57] Speaker A: No, I'll be nice to the bunnies. I just want to. I think it's cool when animals come up in the yard and, and whatnot. I, I'm not that, that person that's like, quit eating my flowers. Quit eating. You know, I'm like, oh, cool you came to visit is how I, I look at that now. That animal took its time to wander into my yard and, you know, be there long enough to be still to have some sort of connection before doing what it's doing or to keep being There. One of these days I might become a Disney princess and get to boop the snoot of something. We'll see. [00:29:38] Speaker B: It could happen. [00:29:40] Speaker A: It could. It could. I might have to start with some bribery of, like, apples or something, but we'll get there. I'm patient when it comes to poop and snooze. The trees is using the. The poison ivy to keep the others off. Could be. Could be. You know, and that's one thing that you'll learn in some shaman, is that even things that make you sick are healing as well in how you approach them and use that energy. So I think that one of the first examples Zane gave was like, the. The destruction wind or the sickening is what it was. [00:30:20] Speaker B: Sickening wind? Yeah. You only work with it in groups. You don't do that by yourself. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you. Do either one of you remember his story of using it? [00:30:32] Speaker C: No, I don't. [00:30:32] Speaker B: With COVID was it. No, I don't remember. [00:30:36] Speaker A: No, I think he was. He told a story about Paco, maybe around the time of the Inquisition, where he called in a sickening wind to slow the progression of the Inquisition down, to give time for the pacos to get up higher, because they only went up so high. So the pacos went higher, and they didn't know they were up there. So, you know, wind can give you nice, cool breezes, keep you from having a heat stroke, but it can also bring in other things. [00:31:12] Speaker B: Just thinking about what you were saying, Melissa, about in the morning, asking nature to help along with the day, I think that is key in general for people just to be open to receiving throughout their day. Like asking is one thing, but then also being open to receiving the guidance. And I think one thing that happens when you start on a tradition like this is once you have these relationships and the support, things start to unfold in terms of your own inner healing. We have a whole part where we really dive into, you know, shadow work, which is, I know a big buzz term right now, and really starting to like, seeing where what your. Your earliest imprints are original wounds and starting to elevate them and learning to navigate them. That's a huge part of this work. And so it's a really a program. Any of these are a path of personal development, but it's like giving you the resources first so you have the tools to then navigate all the stuff that's in there. [00:32:06] Speaker A: That. That is one thing I. I tell people who are interested. I'm like, if you think you know yourself, you're wrong. You Go through this apprenticeship and you will come out completely relearned, you know, of yourself and what you can do. What was holding you back? I think it was the first apprenticeship. There were so many divorces by the end of that. Not saying that was a downside by any means, but so many people stepped into a personal power and put up boundaries that caused separation to happen. Maybe that's not a good example, but I was one of them. But, you know, you learn a lot about yourself. What you think you're afraid of, you might find it's not really that bad. There's something else that you need to address. How much strength you really do have, I think surprises a lot of people. And then that confidence they get from it. Because that's, I want to say, like, and if either one of you have a different point of view, let me know. In going through this apprenticeship, like, that is the main thing. Yes. Learning nature, system, but really learning yourself first and foremost to even then make that connection out into nature. Yay. [00:33:34] Speaker B: I agree. I say yay. Yeah. And to add to that, it's like learning to step into your personal power and your authenticity. And like, when you, A lot of people, when they get married or when they have relationships, their first go around, they're putting up a mask of who they are, wanting the other person to see them as. And as you step into things like, those masks fall away. And it's not necessarily that there's a distancing because of anything wrong. It's just like when you're being authentic, maybe now it's not the same match as as people thought they were. Like, it's not, you know, authenticity really makes or breaks people and we sometimes suppress it so much that we are willing to live as something and someone else rather than have the courage to step into this space. And this space is like, it really gives you the support to do it. And that's why I think we see, see so much world turned upside downs when people go through the program because people are stepping into that, that power and authenticity and having the courage to act on it. Or they hunker down and say, not for me, because you don't have to do that. There's some people that, you know, we've had some people that didn't complete the program because something came up and they're like, oh, yeah, don't want to do that. I, you know, call me at home. [00:34:54] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, okay. Like, no, no judgment. Like, you found where your point is. [00:35:00] Speaker C: So you find your boundary basically. [00:35:04] Speaker B: And that's a Beautiful thing too. [00:35:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. For me, like I said, it was. It was learning about what my great grandfather did and stepping into. But it got me into a place where I stepped in and realized it was talked about in another modality, but I really stepped into it in a shaman. I stepped into my power, and I understand my power. And that was another thing too. You have to understand, once you step in your power, you have to understand your power and how much you're going to affect the people around you and is the environment, and then also the people around you, how much you're going to affect them. So it's like, you know, like the old saying, ignorance is bliss. Well, when you do this, ignorance is no. No longer in the game plan. You are a very powerful being and you realize where your power is and you realize how much you affect everything around you. [00:36:13] Speaker A: So Sherry says, connecting to water, I help the sick fish in my pond. That connection will never leave you. No. And I think, I'm assuming this pond is on your land, so I'm sure you and. And that fish, like, can connect real easy now because you've made that connection with it and be curious what kind of conversations you have, you know, just sitting there. Swarm says it's the inner work they make you do. [00:36:42] Speaker B: Um, yeah, your APUs. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Yep. Elementals. Because. Because they will help bring up stuff that you've been trying to keep locked away in the back. Like, I'll deal with that later. And they're like, oh, no, here you go. You want to get good at this part. You need to address this first. And. [00:37:05] Speaker B: And they do it really with love. It's not like they're trying to do this time. It's just like, if you really want to get where you want to go. Have a look. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Catherine asks ideas for an empath who is curious but doesn't want to be overwhelmed. [00:37:28] Speaker C: I can take that. I'm an empath. I did not know I was an empath. I found out later and I was very overwhelmed. But once you know how to say set your boundaries, it will actually. Will help you along in this type of modality. So it's get. Actually going back to getting to know who you are, getting to know how your energy affects others and the environment, but understanding that you will feel things once you. While you already feel things now, once you step into a groom, once you step into a workshop, once you will feel it. Once you leave that house, you will feel things. So it's just understanding the boundaries and what is your stuff and what. And what is belongs to other people. I have learned that I can send it back. And that is in the Kahuna. It's like it's a blessing. We send the blessing back, we bless it, but we send it back to them because it is not your stuff. So why should you, you know, make it easy to acquire all these people's stuff? [00:38:42] Speaker B: When it comes to empaths, a few things. One, the do your best to not label the energies. Like, thinking that's interesting is one of my best friends, because oftentimes if you label the energy, then you're owning it in a way. So it's just like, that's interesting. And then also like learning some sort of energy flows. Like in the tradition, we have Father's reign, we have the Saiwa Chikui, we have all these different things that you, you're flowing that energy and you're not allowing it to stay. I think some, some empaths get overwhelmed because they have, there, there's a, a little, little itty, teeny frequency that matches whatever you're aware of and it comes in and it rattles it and then it goes back and there's I, I, I coined a term called shadow projection, echo resonance, where when someone is coming with their crap, it, it's like animating the one little part of you, but it gets out of control very fast. So it's more like you're aware of something that's interesting. Thank you for pointing to what I need to look at and that you're done with it. It served its purpose to point to that. But when we get hung up on the awareness of it instead of using it for its purpose, that's where we get out of control as empaths and just practice, practice, practice things and find what works for you. Because what works for me might not work for Maria or for Melissa. So it's like finding what your, your coping skills are for that level of awareness. Because being an empath is a gift. You're like super aware of things. And when you have that in check, it's a great capacity for stepping into the healing arts or something else. If you want to do something else or just for yourself, you don't have to do anything. Just be you and be awesome and change the world just by your presence. [00:40:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we've had a lot of people go through our training and they don't, they don't hang the shingle outside. They're not promoting themselves. It's something they do for themselves and like, maybe their immediate family and friends that they choose to help. And that's, that's completely, completely fine. I will. Was it like by the fourth or fifth weekend when you do the belting and the chumpy stones, it's like there's that practice in play where you purposely send energy at one another and, you know, you learn to practice. Where do you feel it? You know, you hold it out here, you send it back. And you know, for a lot of empaths that would come into the store and just like, I can't even go to Walmart. I'm like, first of all, yes, you can. Second of all, learn how to handle it. Like, going into the immediate, like, I can't because is already putting you at a disadvantage. And you know, that's the great thing with the A prime. Like, even if you only make it up to here and you don't take the rest, like from right now, what you're telling me and presenting like, this is the part that's going to help you now because the program builds. You can't just skip to here. You have to take it up. But, you know, get through at least the chompy and learn. Some of the, the store staff that have. That started the apprenticeship. I will purposely mess with them because they're there just to see if they're paying attention. But it's the teacher's rights at this point to mess with the student. [00:42:01] Speaker B: And they really look at that as, as an exercise to help people grow. It's not like malicious. I shall say, well, Melissa might make it look Melissa delicious, but it's totally right. [00:42:13] Speaker A: You know, if nothing else too, the store is a great learning ground. So if we have like, we had a customer come in and he was so excited about, you know, he had just gotten engaged. Even though he had been with his girlfriend for many years. The, the fact and the idea that he was engaged, he was just so overwhelmed with happiness that he, he, he. It almost looked like a panic attack. But he was crying and he was just over, you know, and the employee at the time, like, I just felt her go, oh, God. And you know, I'm like, okay, let me get up and go up there. And I just kind of leaned on the counter and I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you pick that out. And so as he's talking, I'm just cycling and pulling that. That off because that happiness became too much. Now it's heavy, you know, and it pulled it off and, and you know, helped him get back to calm and center. And then he was like, oh, I'M just so grateful and, like, great. And, you know, you picked a perfect gift. And when he came back, like, a couple months later, he's like, she loved it. And he was in such a more calm state. But he had gotten himself up so much, you know, that was perfect because that employee had been going through the program, and she's like, oh, my God, I'm like, perfect learning. You know, this is where you pull that off and. And you don't automatically assume that, you know, they're crazy, that they're, you know, any sort of negative because clearly he's happy. He's just overrun with it. So you pull that off and help him enjoy the happiness without it being too much. And it costs me nothing but a few minutes to stand there and talk with him, feel what's going on, take care of it, let him go on his way, and make sure that over muchness didn't spread out store. [00:44:04] Speaker B: I like that word over muchness. That's my vocabulary. [00:44:08] Speaker A: Everything was. Oh, I think it was the Singing man season two, where. What is her name? She. She. The way she phrased thing was like, over muchness. Too muchness. I like that. But the store is like a good, almost like, classroom for some of the students. [00:44:34] Speaker B: I think that happens to a lot of people, especially in past, where something like that's happening and for better or for worse, you get drawn into the story. And that's where, you know, keep your bubble. Your bubble. And don't. Don't have the bleeding heart when someone's telling you a trauma tale. Don't have, you know, you just want to be an independent observer. And I think just our presence. When you do this work, whether you're shaman, reiki, healer, or whatnot, part of what you're doing is just helping to redistribute imbalanced energies in the field around you. And when someone's over or under whatever, like, your presence even is helping to write that. [00:45:13] Speaker A: Yeah, now I. [00:45:14] Speaker B: That's the word I was looking for. Balance. [00:45:16] Speaker A: There we go. Now, I will say, having done the apprenticeship a few times, people always like to tell me their life story beforehand. Now it seems to be even more so. And them just wanting to stand, like, near and be, you know, And I'm like, well, if there's a downside here it is. I've got work to do. But. And I will say, like, I never paid much attention to the moon phases or anything, but since the apprenticeship, I find it hard to sleep sometimes around, like, full moon time. And I'm like, well, this wasn't a problem before. I need you to turn that off a little bit. I have to sleep. So did either one of you notice any changes like that? Well, I know, Maria, you were shaking your head. Yes, with the full moon, but yeah, people perceive. Or. [00:46:13] Speaker C: It'S just a full moon. And actually it started before I even took the apprenticeship because I was doing panic healing and they all. [00:46:21] Speaker A: We. [00:46:22] Speaker C: He. The teacher there also talked about the moon and how it affects. Because of the energy. It's like you. You're seeing it and then it's closer to the earth. So therefore, you as an empath may feel it, or you as a. As a healer may feel it. So, yeah, it. I get affected a week before and a week after. That's when not to talk to Maria, because my kids can tell you a week before I will agree to anything. Get her at this time, because you will agree to. And she will agree to anything. I. Yeah. [00:47:05] Speaker B: That's how Maria came to be on this live stream. No, I'm kidding. [00:47:07] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah, I roped her into that too. Like, you're coming and you're gonna like it. [00:47:12] Speaker B: And before I even knew anything about the moon, like the magical purposes, I worked for the bank, and I just noticed I got the most insane people on the phone on the full moon to the point where by the end of the time when I worked at the bank, I was taking off. I was using my vacation time to not be on the phone on the full then. And I was the best decision of my life not to take those calls on those days. But then learning all this, it's like, no wonder. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So I. I pay attention to that. That, like, if I start having a harder time, I'm like, where are we in the moon calendar? No, that makes sense. Okay, so if you want to say a downside, and I'm sure there's work and things I need to learn and address to where maybe they wouldn't bother me as much figuring out what that is now that I just said that out loud. And I'm sure the universe is going to plop in. In my lap here soon. [00:48:08] Speaker B: Well, we could do a whole stream on the lunar return if you want, Melissa, we could dive into that. I know how much you love astrology. [00:48:16] Speaker A: Under that umbrella. That's the one that I'm like, maybe. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Huh? [00:48:23] Speaker A: Well, side note, apparently they're finding evidence of Planet nine. So what does that do to all of your zodiacs and all of your. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it just means even every asteroid affects you. Robert Hand Would say that they're the muses of the universe. And the inspiration between your children's names are all affected by asteroids and things. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm just saying, like, everything affects each other because everything is oneness, and you're resonating off other aspects of creation. So every planet known and unknown is having an influence on you, or you're having an influence on it. [00:48:59] Speaker A: If you prefer the same side as me, though, I will kind of. [00:49:04] Speaker B: Who's with me on this? [00:49:06] Speaker A: You're outnumbered, Hank. [00:49:08] Speaker B: I will say, I don't know about the people in the comments like that we could be outnumbering you. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Who's gonna back up, Hank? [00:49:15] Speaker B: Stay cool. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Thank you, Chair. [00:49:20] Speaker B: Well, you know, my stance on astrology is the more aware you are, the less it matters. And. But it never doesn't matter. So, like, you know, don't peep Pinocchio and just move in with the strings. You want to be conscious about it and don't use it as a victim card. Like, oh, because of this, I'm doing that. No, that's. It is all about inner work and knowing yourself better. Yeah. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I was feeling total gang. No fun. No, it's good. [00:49:48] Speaker A: I heard Master Co, Who I would love to finally get a class with, the way he explained the universe in our solar system isn't necessarily like wood for astrology. And like, oh, you're in Aries, and this means that. And you're a Libra. This means that. The way he described it was that the source greater than us is so is such a magnitude that we can't comprehend it here in our little bitty body, little bitty brains, that the solar system is kind of like a transformer that brings that energy down to make it comprehendable for us to even start to work with it. And I'm like, I like that better, you know? And I'm like, I. I can work with that. I can. I can absolutely work with that. Especially then if you start expanding out to working with the dark stars and the quasars and all of that, which we even address in our at least one or two years in the Peruvian mysticism of. He's like our dark star in our galaxy. Connect to that. And what does that feel and what can you do and how does that work with you? And I'm like, I'm on it. I. I appreciate that. [00:51:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And as you like, as the. From the fourth level to the fifth level, you're working with more of the tex apus. Like instead of the nature spirits, here, you're working with the nature spirits of the cosmos. Tex means cosmic in fact. So like you're working like a pomp of Masaika. Third level priest is working with the river, the stream. Fourth level is working with the earth, is working with the ocean is working with, you know, like the, the grander spirits or whatever. Grander, but the big ones and they keep on going. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Also, Chair wants to know if you want to be stories about going insane on the moon or knowing anybody that's gone besides your bank people. Hank, you already told that one. [00:51:38] Speaker B: Besides my bank people. People are just really affected by it. And it's not just the full moon. Like, if you were to do a journal and like every two and a half days, like track emotions and things, you'll see a correlation between them. You know, this is astrology, but you'll see a correlation between the moon and what, what zodiac had said and like what's showing up in your life. So not just full moons. Like the moon has an influence, I believe all the time and could be a huge tool for doing inner work. The only insane stories I really have are bank stories. [00:52:13] Speaker A: And that's for a different time now. Maria, you work with monies and numbers too. Did you notice full moon just craziness. [00:52:21] Speaker C: When I used to be going to the office every day I met. I am so glad that I work remotely because I don't have to experience any of that. But I did notice when I went to the office, somehow, some way, I end up hearing it and I end up hearing there's. Then they just go on the tangent and I'm going, I really don't need to hear this. I really need to go back to my desk. So, yeah, I do hear it. I wasn't with the public when I was in the office. I was just working with a lot of the office staff. But yeah, so I don't, I don't experience that now. I just experiencing my own energy now. And I, I noticed that it, I do get affected about a week before and a week after. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Interesting. It. Yes. Chair, she's like, the more I learn about the moon, the more mysterious and bizarre it is. There's more, much more to it than just a rock, as most people think. And it's, it's a pretty nice giant rock out there, I think. And it's interesting and I wonder if anybody's done any sort of research on human behavior over the course of maybe like per hundred years since the Moon technically is pulling away from us. What is it like? I think it's 3cm or 3 inches every year. So it is getting farther away. So you know, that being said, how it affects and everything, like what has happened as it's getting farther away. Like how are we in humanity reacting subconsciously or not even knowing it as a whole to the moon pulling away from us and abandonment. Yeah. Even if you're not into the woo woo from a scientific. So really weird mind. [00:54:25] Speaker B: Like how much have tides changed? If at all like are. That's something measurable, isn't it? [00:54:30] Speaker A: I would. [00:54:31] Speaker B: I think it doesn't have anything to do with the tides. I think had to do like that scientist we were talking about earlier did a whole video on. It's more about the rotation to the earth and the water changing. [00:54:40] Speaker A: But I'm not sure if I remember right. He says Earth isn't perfectly round at that point. It becomes a little bit oblong because it's pulling the water. So we, you know, it's not actually circular. It's got that slight pull to it and it, you know, messes because science energy shifts and effects around. So, you know, it's. It's really interesting. But it would be curious to try and go back as far as we can the overall behaviors as much as we can track it. Like as the moon keeps pulling away. [00:55:16] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in. Hopefully we'll see you again soon. I don't have anything. [00:55:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:20] Speaker B: Many blessings, Nike Koiki. Thank you. I love you. [00:55:26] Speaker A: All right, Maria, you good? [00:55:29] Speaker C: No, I don't have anything. It's just. No. Follow. Follow where you've been directed. It could be shaman, it could be healing. Whatever your interest, follow that. [00:55:43] Speaker A: All right guys, well, thanks for joining and we'll see you next time.